Can't we have our own Miracle on the 'Tana' River?

spear

Village Sponsor
#21
@spear we destroy and steal from ourselves, we rush to aid any external interests who want to plunder and dump in our territory, in doing so we turned against our own future; we have no mercy for our own that is why we cannot reach the height of South Korea. We have to love one another, conquer the tribal bias and hate, and seek a good outcome for each other.

Kenya has remained allied to the West. The South Koreans developed because they put the money into the development projects, corruption didn’t impede there thinking, they developed and enhanced local skills and talent to maintain the momentum of their development.
It is possible to get £1, 2 ….5billion annually and squander it. That one billion would still have been stolen ending up in offshore foreign accounts. If we had put all our money into the right places we could only be a few steps behind S Korea.

There was a time when Kenya’s crop was fetching good prices, when we were building a healthy surplus account, we were surplus producer of sugar, rice etc, before we destroyed the ADC farms. Galana Tana land perhaps could be turned into an ADC farm, reinstate the skills of large farm management that we destroyed. Lease some of that land to local farmers to supply to the large farm which could have the processing plant.
I noticed you like a lot of theories. Have you ever tried business. Start a shop or kiosk.

If you can dismiss +$1 billion annually as budgetary support then let me give you another example. Indonesia had a military dictator called Suharto who was very corrupt and killed 100's of 1000's of Christian minorities there. The usa didn't care if he killed all those who opposed him. He was their cold war alley and also received +$1 billion budgetary support from uncle Sam. Indonesia. They got that money despite the gas and oil they had. That money went to build the nation as he ate the resources money. His family become among the wealthiest in Asia. Indonesia was competing with Nigeria Abacha and Kenya Nyayo on bottom three corruption index. Indonesia is an emerging developed country. The impact of huge amount of money constantly circulating in the economy means it will have a steady growth curve that not only increases business growth but industrial growth as well.
 
#22
The constant comparisons with South Korea are unhelpful and redundant. The SE Asian nation that should be our model is Malaysia.

This is a multiethnic nation that successfully followed the plans of the Asian Tigers and didn't have a massive cash injection like S. Korea or Taiwan.

Granted its not in the First World, but its not in the Third World either.


Industrialization and the New Economic Policy 1970-90
The program of industrialization aimed primarily at the domestic market (ISI) lost impetus in the late 1960s as foreign investors, particularly from Britain switched attention elsewhere. An important factor here was the outbreak of civil disturbances in May 1969, following a federal election in which political parties in the Peninsula (largely non-bumiputera in membership) opposed to the Alliance did unexpectedly well. This brought to a head tensions, which had been rising during the 1960s over issues such as the use of the national language, Malay (Bahasa Malaysia) as the main instructional medium in education. There was also discontent among Peninsular Malays that the economic fruits since independence had gone mostly to non-Malays, notably the Chinese. The outcome was severe inter-ethnic rioting centered in the federal capital, Kuala Lumpur, which led to the suspension of parliamentary government for two years and the implementation of the New Economic Policy (NEP).
The main aim of the NEP was a restructuring of the Malaysian economy over two decades, 1970-90 with the following aims:

  1. to redistribute corporate equity so that the bumiputera share would rise from around 2 percent to 30 percent. The share of other Malaysians would increase marginally from 35 to 40 percent, while that of foreigners would fall from 63 percent to 30 percent.
  2. to eliminate the close link between race and economic function (a legacy of the colonial era) and restructure employment so that that the bumiputera share in each sector would reflect more accurately their proportion of the total population (roughly 55 percent). In 1970 this group had about two-thirds of jobs in the primary sector where incomes were generally lowest, but only 30 percent in the secondary sector. In high-income middle class occupations (e.g. professions, management) the share was only 13 percent.
  3. To eradicate poverty irrespective of race. In 1970 just under half of all households in Peninsular Malaysia had incomes below the official poverty line. Malays accounted for about 75 percent of these.
The principle underlying these aims was that the redistribution would not result in any one group losing in absolute terms. Rather it would be achieved through the process of economic growth, i.e. the economy would get bigger (more investment, more jobs, etc.). While the primary sector would continue to receive developmental aid under the successive Five Year Plans, the main emphasis was a switch to export-oriented industrialization (EOI) with Malaysia seeking a share in global markets for manufactured goods. Free Trade Zones (FTZs) were set up in places such as Penang where production was carried on with the undertaking that the output would be exported. Firms locating there received concessions such as duty-free imports of raw materials and capital goods, and tax concessions, aimed at primarily at foreign investors who were also attracted by Malaysia’s good facilities, relatively low wages and docile trade unions. A range of industries grew up; textiles, rubber and food products, chemicals, telecommunications equipment, electrical and electronic machinery/appliances, car assembly and some heavy industries, iron and steel. As with ISI, much of the capital and technology was foreign, for example the Japanese firm Mitsubishi was a partner in a venture to set up a plant to assemble a Malaysian national car, the Proton, from mostly imported components (Drabble, 2000).
Results of the NEP
Table 2 below shows the outcome of the NEP in the categories outlined above.
Table 2
Restructuring under the NEP, 1970-90
1970 1990 Wealth Ownership (%)Bumiputera2.020.3Other Malaysians34.654.6Foreigners63.425.1Employment
(%) of total
workers
in each
sectorPrimary sector (agriculture, mineral
extraction, forest products and fishing)Bumiputera67.6[61.0]*71.2[36.7]*Others32.428.8Secondary sector
(manufacturing and construction)Bumiputera30.8[14.6]*48.0[26.3]*Others69.252.0Tertiary sector (services)Bumiputera37.9[24.4]*51.0[36.9]*Others62.149.0
Note: [ ]* is the proportion of the ethnic group thus employed. The “others” category has not been disaggregated by race to avoid undue complexity.
Source: Drabble, 2000, Table 10.9.
Section (a) shows that, overall, foreign ownership fell substantially more than planned, while that of “Other Malaysians” rose well above the target. Bumiputera ownership appears to have stopped well short of the 30 percent mark. However, other evidence suggests that in certain sectors such as agriculture/mining (35.7%) and banking/insurance (49.7%) bumiputera ownership of shares in publicly listed companies had already attained a level well beyond the target. Section (b) indicates that while bumiputera employment share in primary production increased slightly (due mainly to the land schemes), as a proportion of that ethnic group it declined sharply, while rising markedly in both the secondary and tertiary sectors. In middle class employment the share rose to 27 percent.
As regards the proportion of households below the poverty line, in broad terms the incidence in Malaysia fell from approximately 49 percent in 1970 to 17 percent in 1990, but with large regional variations between the Peninsula (15%), Sarawak (21 %) and Sabah (34%) (Drabble, 2000, Table 13.5). All ethnic groups registered big falls, but on average the non-bumiputera still enjoyed the lowest incidence of poverty. By 2002 the overall level had fallen to only 4 percent.
The restructuring of the Malaysian economy under the NEP is very clear when we look at the changes in composition of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Table 3 below.
Table 3
Structural Change in GDP 1970-90 (% shares)
Year Primary Secondary Tertiary 197044.318.337.4199028.130.241.7
Source: Malaysian Government, 1991, Table 3-2.
Over these three decades Malaysia accomplished a transition from a primary product-dependent economy to one in which manufacturing industry had emerged as the leading growth sector. Rubber and tin, which accounted for 54.3 percent of Malaysian export value in 1970, declined sharply in relative terms to a mere 4.9 percent in 1990 (Crouch, 1996, 222).
Factors in the structural shift
The post-independence state played a leading role in the transformation. The transition from British rule was smooth. Apart from the disturbances in 1969 government maintained a firm control over the administrative machinery. Malaysia’s Five Year Development plans were a model for the developing world. Foreign capital was accorded a central role, though subject to the requirements of the NEP. At the same time these requirements discouraged domestic investors, the Chinese especially, to some extent (Jesudason, 1989).
Development was helped by major improvements in education and health. Enrolments at the primary school level reached approximately 90 percent by the 1970s, and at the secondary level 59 percent of potential by 1987. Increased female enrolments, up from 39 percent to 58 percent of potential from 1975 to 1991, were a notable feature, as was the participation of women in the workforce which rose to just over 45 percent of total employment by 1986/7. In the tertiary sector the number of universities increased from one to seven between 1969 and 1990 and numerous technical and vocational colleges opened. Bumiputera enrolments soared as a result of the NEP policy of redistribution (which included ethnic quotas and government scholarships). However, tertiary enrolments totaled only 7 percent of the age group by 1987. There was an “educational-occupation mismatch,” with graduates (bumiputera especially) preferring jobs in government, and consequent shortfalls against strong demand for engineers, research scientists, technicians and the like. Better living conditions (more homes with piped water and more rural clinics, for example) led to substantial falls in infant mortality, improved public health and longer life-expectancy, especially in Peninsular Malaysia (Drabble, 2000, 248, 284-6).
The quality of national leadership was a crucial factor. This was particularly so during the NEP. The leading figure here was Dr Mahathir Mohamad, Malaysian Prime Minister from 1981-2003. While supporting the NEP aim through positive discrimination to give bumiputera an economic stake in the country commensurate with their indigenous status and share in the population, he nevertheless emphasized that this should ultimately lead them to a more modern outlook and ability to compete with the other races in the country, the Chinese especially (see Khoo Boo Teik, 1995). There were, however, some paradoxes here. Mahathir was a meritocrat in principle, but in practice this period saw the spread of “money politics” (another expression for patronage) in Malaysia. In common with many other countries Malaysia embarked on a policy of privatization of public assets, notably in transportation (e.g. Malaysian Airlines), utilities (e.g. electricity supply) and communications (e.g. television). This was done not through an open process of competitive tendering but rather by a “nebulous ‘first come, first served’ principle” (Jomo, 1995, 8) which saw ownership pass directly to politically well-connected businessmen, mainly bumiputera,at relatively low valuations.
The New Development Policy
Positive action to promote bumiputera interests did not end with the NEP in 1990, this was followed in 1991 by the New Development Policy (NDP), which emphasized assistance only to “Bumiputera with potential, commitment and good track records” (Malaysian Government, 1991, 17) rather than the previous blanket measures to redistribute wealth and employment. In turn the NDP was part of a longer-term program known as Vision 2020. The aim here is to turn Malaysia into a fully industrialized country and to quadruple per capita income by the year 2020. This will require the country to continue ascending the technological “ladder” from low- to high-tech types of industrial production, with a corresponding increase in the intensity of capital investment and greater retention of value-added (i.e. the value added to raw materials in the production process) by Malaysian producers.
The Malaysian economy continued to boom at historically unprecedented rates of 8-9 percent a year for much of the 1990s (see next section). There was heavy expenditure on infrastructure, for example extensive building in Kuala Lumpur such as the Twin Towers (currently the highest buildings in the world). The volume of manufactured exports, notably electronic goods and electronic components increased rapidly.
 

S_Lilly

Village Elder
#23
I noticed you like a lot of theories. Have you ever tried business. Start a shop or kiosk.

If you can dismiss +$1 billion annually as budgetary support then let me give you another example. Indonesia had a military dictator called Suharto who was very corrupt and killed 100's of 1000's of Christian minorities there. The usa didn't care if he killed all those who opposed him. He was their cold war alley and also received +$1 billion budgetary support from uncle Sam. Indonesia. They got that money despite the gas and oil they had. That money went to build the nation as he ate the resources money. His family become among the wealthiest in Asia. Indonesia was competing with Nigeria Abacha and Kenya Nyayo on bottom three corruption index. Indonesia is an emerging developed country. The impact of huge amount of money constantly circulating in the economy means it will have a steady growth curve that not only increases business growth but industrial growth as well.
I have not dismissed +$1 billion. The point is, if we received that $1 Billion yearly which got stolen, put away in offshore accounts to fund excessive lifestyles, or buying houses in the most expensive streets in world capital cities, like the Nigerians do, it would be of no benefit to us. The Indonesians may have stolen but kept the money internally.

Oil theft in Nigeria totals to about $2.7 billion yearly, theft of oil revenue probably more than that.
Does Nigeria need $1 bilion yearly from America to support development? No! They need to stop stealing their own resources, the aid is much less than what they steal, the same applies to Kenya. Theft or corruption hinders revenue mobilisation for development and essential training. It forces us to seek larger loans which is paid with hefty interest rate, a double loss.
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#24
I have not dismissed +$1 billion. The point is, if we received that $1 Billion yearly which got stolen, put away in offshore accounts to fund excessive lifestyles, or buying houses in the most expensive streets in world capital cities, like the Nigerians do, it would be of no benefit to us. The Indonesians may have stolen but kept the money internally.

Oil theft in Nigeria totals to about $2.7 billion yearly, theft of oil revenue probably more than that.
Does Nigeria need $1 bilion yearly from America to support development? No! They need to stop stealing their own resources, the aid is much less than what they steal, the same applies to Kenya. Theft or corruption hinders revenue mobilisation for development and essential training. It forces us to seek larger loans which is paid with hefty interest rate, a double loss.
Stop guessing: "The Indonesians may have stolen but kept the money internally" just say it doesn't fit your theory and therefore its wrong. Just do any research on Suharto and then come a read this again.
 

mwania

Village Elder
#25
The key secret with this meteoric rise of South Korea that they will never acknowledge is the Cold War. Their work ethic might not be so different from their brothers to the North (Korea) and many others. But what really helped them is the American investment to ward of Russia from S. Korea. Of course, even if we were given the same we would still not be anywhere near them because we are "rogwad" Kichwa maji tupu, low lives all over.

This cold war is what kept countries like Zaire (Congo DRC), Egypt going even with dictators at the helm. When USSR and the Cold war crashed, that was the end of kid-gloves treatment by the USA of these countries. And that is also how Moi was forced to accept Pluralism.. We need thorough discussions on the effects of the Cold War existence and its demise
 
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S_Lilly

Village Elder
#26
Stop guessing: "The Indonesians may have stolen but kept the money internally" just say it doesn't fit your theory and therefore its wrong. Just do any research on Suharto and then come a read this again.
I am afraid what I find about Suharto only strenthend the view point I put across.

Facts- Suharto

Sukarno established an autocratic system called "Guided Democracy" in 1957.
He relied on the help of American-educated economists to reinvigorate the Indonesian economy and encouraged Western investment and foreign aid.

During his tenure, Indonesia’s domestic oil production was greatly expanded, with the resulting revenues used to fund infrastructure and development projects.

He advocated Indonesians to be "standing on their own feet” and reach economic self-sufficiency, free from foreign influence.

Three decades of uninterrupted rule gave Indonesia much-needed political stability and sustained economic growth.

By the 1990s excessive corruption and favouritism of his regime alienate both the middle class and business circles, “Suharto allowed his friends and his six children to assume control of key sectors of the economy and amass enormous fortunes by means of monopolies and lucrative trade arrangements”.

His Regime finally fell victim to an economic downturn and its own internal corruption.

“….the Indonesian national currency, the rupiah, plummeted, and the resulting financial crisis exposed deep flaws in the national economy
The aspects of the economy supported by corruption has a time limit is is a timed-bomb.
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#27
I am afraid what I find about Suharto only strenthend the view point I put across.

Facts- Suharto

Sukarno established an autocratic system called "Guided Democracy" in 1957.
He relied on the help of American-educated economists to reinvigorate the Indonesian economy and encouraged Western investment and foreign aid.

During his tenure, Indonesia’s domestic oil production was greatly expanded, with the resulting revenues used to fund infrastructure and development projects.

He advocated Indonesians to be "standing on their own feet” and reach economic self-sufficiency, free from foreign influence.

Three decades of uninterrupted rule gave Indonesia much-needed political stability and sustained economic growth.

By the 1990s excessive corruption and favouritism of his regime alienate both the middle class and business circles, “Suharto allowed his friends and his six children to assume control of key sectors of the economy and amass enormous fortunes by means of monopolies and lucrative trade arrangements”.

His Regime finally fell victim to an economic downturn and its own internal corruption.

“….the Indonesian national currency, the rupiah, plummeted, and the resulting financial crisis exposed deep flaws in the national economy
The aspects of the economy supported by corruption has a time limit is is a timed-bomb.
I guess you are right, they didn't send the stolen funds abroad. I and the rest are simply lying. Please accept my apologizes to you and please pass the same to the late Suharto family. I will ask them to erase this reports of $10 billion in swiss accounts and a reported $73 billion that transacted thorough one family. That would mean the family alone used up more than the $1 billion the usa gave them a year. The only consolidation which is my point is that such large amounts of money circulating in any economy will create economic and industrial growth since cash is readily available.

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2056697,00.html

When the end came for Suharto, Indonesia's long-serving President appeared oddly passive. As students and angry mobs took to the streets and soldiers responded with gunfire and tear gas, the five-star general hovered in the background, making few attempts to set things right. When he finally quit a year ago this week, he stood meekly to the side as his successor, B.J. Habibie, took the oath of office. Suharto has hardly been heard from since.
But Indonesia's onetime autocrat has been far busier than most of his countrymen realize. Just after his fall from power there began feverish movements of his personal fortune. In July 1998, reports emerged that a staggering sum of money linked to Indonesia had been shifted from a bank in Switzerland to another in Austria, now considered a safer haven for hush-hush deposits. The transfer caught the attention of the United States Treasury, which tracks such movements, and set in motion diplomatic inquiries in Vienna. Now, as part of a four-month investigation that covered 11 countries, TIME has learned that $9 billion of Suharto money was transferred from Switzerland to a nominee bank account in Austria. Not bad for a man whose presidential salary was $1,764 a month when he left office. (Suharto, for his part, denies that he has any bank deposits abroad and insists that his wealth amounts to a mere 19 hectares of land in Indonesia, plus $2.4 million in savings.)

Nonetheless, the code of secrecy shielding the family is breaking down. After hundreds of interviews with former and current Suharto friends and government officials, business associates, lawyers, accountants, bankers and relatives, as well as examinations of dozens of documents (including bank records of outstanding loans), TIME correspondents found indications that at least $73 billion passed through the family's hands between 1966 and last year. Much of that was from the mining, timber, commodities and petroleum industries. Bad investments and Indonesia's financial crisis have reduced the sum substantially. But evidence indicates that Suharto and his six children still have a conservatively estimated $15 billion in cash, shares, corporate assets, real estate, jewelry and fine art--including works by Indonesian masters Affandi and Basoeki Abdullah in the collection of Siti Hediati Hariyadi, the middle daughter known as "Titiek."

If Kenya was getting $1 billion for the last 50 years we would at least be at par with South Africa bit not South Korea since their work ethics are higher.
 

S_Lilly

Village Elder
#28
I guess you are right, they didn't send the stolen funds abroad. I and the rest are simply lying. Please accept my apologizes to you and please pass the same to the late Suharto family. I will ask them to erase this reports of $10 billion in swiss accounts and a reported $73 billion that transacted thorough one family. That would mean the family alone used up more than the $1 billion the usa gave them a year. The only consolidation which is my point is that such large amounts of money circulating in any economy will create economic and industrial growth since cash is readily available.

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2056697,00.html

When the end came for Suharto, Indonesia's long-serving President appeared oddly passive. As students and angry mobs took to the streets and soldiers responded with gunfire and tear gas, the five-star general hovered in the background, making few attempts to set things right. When he finally quit a year ago this week, he stood meekly to the side as his successor, B.J. Habibie, took the oath of office. Suharto has hardly been heard from since.
But Indonesia's onetime autocrat has been far busier than most of his countrymen realize. Just after his fall from power there began feverish movements of his personal fortune. In July 1998, reports emerged that a staggering sum of money linked to Indonesia had been shifted from a bank in Switzerland to another in Austria, now considered a safer haven for hush-hush deposits. The transfer caught the attention of the United States Treasury, which tracks such movements, and set in motion diplomatic inquiries in Vienna. Now, as part of a four-month investigation that covered 11 countries, TIME has learned that $9 billion of Suharto money was transferred from Switzerland to a nominee bank account in Austria. Not bad for a man whose presidential salary was $1,764 a month when he left office. (Suharto, for his part, denies that he has any bank deposits abroad and insists that his wealth amounts to a mere 19 hectares of land in Indonesia, plus $2.4 million in savings.)

Nonetheless, the code of secrecy shielding the family is breaking down. After hundreds of interviews with former and current Suharto friends and government officials, business associates, lawyers, accountants, bankers and relatives, as well as examinations of dozens of documents (including bank records of outstanding loans), TIME correspondents found indications that at least $73 billion passed through the family's hands between 1966 and last year. Much of that was from the mining, timber, commodities and petroleum industries. Bad investments and Indonesia's financial crisis have reduced the sum substantially. But evidence indicates that Suharto and his six children still have a conservatively estimated $15 billion in cash, shares, corporate assets, real estate, jewelry and fine art--including works by Indonesian masters Affandi and Basoeki Abdullah in the collection of Siti Hediati Hariyadi, the middle daughter known as "Titiek."

If Kenya was getting $1 billion for the last 50 years we would at least be at par with South Africa bit not South Korea since their work ethics are higher.
Thanks for that info.
If we were getting $1 billion and utilising it appropriately, our work ethics would also be on ascend; advanced right skills, good wages and people would be motivated.
 
#29
I noticed you like a lot of theories. Have you ever tried business. Start a shop or kiosk.

If you can dismiss +$1 billion annually as budgetary support then let me give you another example. Indonesia had a military dictator called Suharto who was very corrupt and killed 100's of 1000's of Christian minorities there. The usa didn't care if he killed all those who opposed him. He was their cold war alley and also received +$1 billion budgetary support from uncle Sam. Indonesia. They got that money despite the gas and oil they had. That money went to build the nation as he ate the resources money. His family become among the wealthiest in Asia. Indonesia was competing with Nigeria Abacha and Kenya Nyayo on bottom three corruption index. Indonesia is an emerging developed country. The impact of huge amount of money constantly circulating in the economy means it will have a steady growth curve that not only increases business growth but industrial growth as well.
Your arguments do not really make any sense, even if you throw all your statistics trying to sound smart,underdevelopment is self-inflicted and directly tied to the political leadership,Suhatro did not directly steal development money from Indonesia like the conniving meter reader and class 4 drop out from Sacho,He was a benevolent dictator.Why is Nigeria so backward inspite of its oil wealth? .And Kenya was also a strategic ally of the US and the most stable state in East Africa, what stopped the meter reader from developing the country ,also Mobutu Sese Seko received a lot of Aid for being a western ally during the cold war.A country does not develop simply because of receiving FDI

Switzerland was also a backward country in the 40s and 50s, a small country land locked without any minerals deposits yet today it is very wealthy. And you should read dead aid by Ndambisa Moyo, Africa has received so much Aid from Europe, the US and world bank and not much has happened, in fact the Aid received had made things worse
 
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S_Lilly

Village Elder
#30
How Did South Korea’s Economy Develop So Quickly?

South Korea has three core strength -> those strengths happen to be Kenya's weaknesses.

1) Enforcing contracts - Kenya, in contracts is where lucrative corruption can be found and is costly
2) Getting Electricity - don't we all know -In Korea, Energy producers are dominated by government enterprises.
3) Ease of doing Business - "

1560434440094.png

Among the list of criteria, South Korea dominates in the ease to start a business and enforcing contracts. All of them play a significant role in encouraging investment, production, communication and, eventually, economic growth.

Second, South Korea has devoted extra attention to technology development and innovation to promote growth. Innovation and technology are the key factors that have underpinned South Korean export competitiveness and fueled the country's remarkable economic rise over the past decades.5

In fact, South Korea is now spending the largest share of its GDP on research and development (R&D), even larger than the U.S. and Japan, two of the global leaders in innovation based on R&D intensity. Between 1996 and 2015, South Korea’s R&D intensity grew 88.5 percent (from 2.24 percent in 1996 to 4.23 percent in 2015), By Ana Maria Santacreu, Economist, and Heting Zhu, Senior Research Associate
 

Sambamba

Village Elder
#32
Key iko hapo kwa rule of law and enforcing contracts .No one wants to invest where they are not confident of the impartiality of the courts and the cops .The same way you'd be out of your mind to go and invest in South Sudan .Unless we get that right ,we will be perpetually poor .
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#33
The key secret with this meteoric rise of South Korea that they will never acknowledge is the Cold War. Their work ethic might not be so different from their brothers to the North (Korea) and many others. But what really helped them is the American investment to ward of Russia from S. Korea. Of course, even if we were given the same we would still not be anywhere near them because we are "rogwad" Kichwa maji tupu, low lives all over.

This cold war is what kept countries like Zaire (Congo DRC), Egypt going even with dictators at the helm. When USSR and the Cold war crashed, that was the end of kid-gloves treatment by the USA of these countries. And that is also how Moi was forced to accept Pluralism.. We need thorough discussions on the effects of the Cold War existence and its demise
If you are a fan of history then Asia has a very long documented history. I read about ancient Asia history and it surprises me how europe overtook them. They were far much ahead in language, science, tools, engineering and arts while europe were savages raiding and killing each other for food. Japan, China and Korea have relations spanning 15 centuries. The famed strong work culture in Japan actually was borrowed from Korea. This was because they fought each other countless times. So to be better, you had to train and prepare all your life. Korea were the hard workers and they forced others to adapt to it to keep up. Centuries after that work ethic is almost a birth right in the three nations.
 

mwania

Village Elder
#34
If you are a fan of history then Asia has a very long documented history. I read about ancient Asia history and it surprises me how europe overtook them. They were far much ahead in language, science, tools, engineering and arts while europe were savages raiding and killing each other for food. Japan, China and Korea have relations spanning 15 centuries. The famed strong work culture in Japan actually was borrowed from Korea. This was because they fought each other countless times. So to be better, you had to train and prepare all your life. Korea were the hard workers and they forced others to adapt to it to keep up. Centuries after that work ethic is almost a birth right in the three nations.
Sure. But are you saying that America did not play a major role in the last 60 years of exponential growth?
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#35
Sure. But are you saying that America did not play a major role in the last 60 years of exponential growth?
No, I've been clear on that, usa is the main reason they industrialized for providing constant finances to their government. However their great work ethic also helped.
 

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