In an open, democracy, with no corruption things are done this way.

patco

Village Elder
#1
Just 11 days ago the garbage collector from Pittsburgh posted this thread :

https://www.kenyatalk.com/index.php?threads/the-wind-is-blowing-south.106697/

And in that thread I argued as I often do that we don't need FOREIGN INVESTORS to design, finance and build projects for us.

Lets say Kenya needs a new super highway from Mombasa to Kisumu. In an OPEN, democratic society the elected leader holds a competition where the citizens and anyone who feels like pitches ideas and drawings for a new road!!

And you will get so many responses utashangaa.

Not some crude designs, hurriedly cobbled together in Beijing or Washington by Bechtel or CCCC then presented in PDF format in TOP SECRET fashion in documents that no one will ever see... and in that PDF the thugs eat 20 or 30 billion shillings... and within months the project that no one knows begins...

NO! NO! NO!

In an OPEN society the leader encourages public participation. You draw the road. The winner is selected and given a small prize, the budget is drawn up, OPENLY and if need be people even contribute towards the cause.

And the contract is not hidden by the President in a safe somewhere. And when journalists ask, wanadanganywa ati watapewa siku moja. The whole process is very open.

And because the citizens know the importance of the road, they will chip in ushangae. You will get Kenyan engineers from abroad giving free advice. Mtapewa free tractors and equipment hadi mshindwe kwa kuziweka. You will not even need a loan from China Exim bank or U.S. Exim bank.

Even the labour iko papo hapo Kenya. Watajitolea ushangae. From raiya, to the army corp to NYS... labour force ni kubwa sana. Hitler evil as he was, rebuilt Germany in a few years because he inspired his fellow Aryans to do it.

The same in the 1930s U.S. , Fidel's Cuba... as well as Jomo in the 1960s. Jomo built Kenya on the Harambee Spirit. There was no money but people needed classrooms and roads. And the people stood behind him. And those schools and churches and roads are still there today. Of course after he tasted money and the good life and shambas...

This is what I'm talking about :

https://www.theguardian.com/global/...tecture-competition-rebuild-notre-dames-spire
 

patco

Village Elder
#2
Notre Dame
France announces architecture contest to redesign Notre Dame spire
PM says rebuilt cathedral could reflect ‘techniques and challenges of our times’
Staff and agencies
Wed 17 Apr 2019 12.14 BSTLast modified on Wed 17 Apr 201915.26 BST



France will launch an international architectural competition to redesign the roofline of Notre-Dame cathedral after a huge fire gutted the oak-beamed structure and sent its 300-foot spire crashing into the nave, the prime minister has said.
Edouard Philippe said the competition would give the 850-year-old monument “a spire suited to the techniques and challenges of our time”. No estimation of the cost of rebuilding the cathedral, for which French billionaires, multinationals and private citizens have so far raised €880m (£763m) project, had yet been made, he said.
President Emmanuel Macron promised the nation on Tuesday night that Notre-Dame, a powerful symbol of France’s history and culture and the point from which the country’s road distances are measured, would be rebuilt - and be “more beautiful than before” - within five years, a timetable many experts consider impossible.
As the Paris prosecutor’s office said investigators looking into the causes of the fire have still not been able to look inside the cathedral, Notre-Dame’s rector, Bishop Patrick Chauvet, said he expected the building to remain closed to the public for five to six years. “A segment has been very weakened,” Chauvet said.

Play Video
1:25
Drone footage shows Notre Dame Cathedral fire damage – video
A fire service spokesman said there was no immediate danger the structure, which lost two-thirds of its roof in the fire, would collapse. But it was not yet considered secure enough for investigators to enter and start examining the source of the fire in situ, the prosecutor’s office said.
Investigators, who have said they have no reason to believe the blaze was anything but an accident, spoke to about 30 witnesses on Tuesday, including employees of companies involved in a €150m restoration programme that started last year and is widely believed to be linked to the fire
A fire brigade official, Philippe Demay, said the cathedral’s iconic twin towers would have collapsed if the 400 firefighters on the scene had not moved fast and brought in the right heavy equipment. The operation was “extremely difficult”, he said, denying the service could have acted any faster than it did.
Notre-Dame was built over a period of nearly 200 years starting in the middle of the 12th century, but the 93-metre, lead-covered spire was only added in the mid-19th century during a major restoration project completed by the architect Eugène Viollet-le-Duc.
“The international competition will allow us to ask the question of whether we should even recreate the spire as it was conceived by Viollet-le-Duc,” Philippe told reporters after a cabinet meeting dedicated to the fire.
“Or, as is often the case in the evolution of heritage, whether we should endow Notre-Dame with a new spire. This is obviously a huge challenge, a historic responsibility.”
The prime minister added that the government would present a bill next week to ensure “transparency and good management” during the mammoth reconstruction project, including measures to make sure all donations actually end up going to Notre-Dame. Ordinary French citizens will benefit from a tax break of 75% on donations up to €1,000.
 
#3
Just 11 days ago the garbage collector from Pittsburgh posted this thread :

https://www.kenyatalk.com/index.php?threads/the-wind-is-blowing-south.106697/

And in that thread I argued as I often do that we don't need FOREIGN INVESTORS to design, finance and build projects for us.

Lets say Kenya needs a new super highway from Mombasa to Kisumu. In an OPEN, democratic society the elected leader holds a competition where the citizens and anyone who feels like pitches ideas and drawings for a new road!!

And you will get so many responses utashangaa.

Not some crude designs, hurriedly cobbled together in Beijing or Washington by Bechtel or CCCC then presented in PDF format in TOP SECRET fashion in documents that no one will ever see... and in that PDF the thugs eat 20 or 30 billion shillings... and within months the project that no one knows begins...

NO! NO! NO!

In an OPEN society the leader encourages public participation. You draw the road. The winner is selected and given a small prize, the budget is drawn up, OPENLY and if need be people even contribute towards the cause.

And the contract is not hidden by the President in a safe somewhere. And when journalists ask, wanadanganywa ati watapewa siku moja. The whole process is very open.

And because the citizens know the importance of the road, they will chip in ushangae. You will get Kenyan engineers from abroad giving free advice. Mtapewa free tractors and equipment hadi mshindwe kwa kuziweka. You will not even need a loan from China Exim bank or U.S. Exim bank.

Even the labour iko papo hapo Kenya. Watajitolea ushangae. From raiya, to the army corp to NYS... labour force ni kubwa sana. Hitler evil as he was, rebuilt Germany in a few years because he inspired his fellow Aryans to do it.

The same in the 1930s U.S. , Fidel's Cuba... as well as Jomo in the 1960s. Jomo built Kenya on the Harambee Spirit. There was no money but people needed classrooms and roads. And the people stood behind him. And those schools and churches and roads are still there today. Of course after he tasted money and the good life and shambas...

This is what I'm talking about :

https://www.theguardian.com/global/...tecture-competition-rebuild-notre-dames-spire
Nikweli kabisa
 

Regis2812

Village Elder
#4
Just 11 days ago the garbage collector from Pittsburgh posted this thread :

https://www.kenyatalk.com/index.php?threads/the-wind-is-blowing-south.106697/

And in that thread I argued as I often do that we don't need FOREIGN INVESTORS to design, finance and build projects for us.

Lets say Kenya needs a new super highway from Mombasa to Kisumu. In an OPEN, democratic society the elected leader holds a competition where the citizens and anyone who feels like pitches ideas and drawings for a new road!!

And you will get so many responses utashangaa.

Not some crude designs, hurriedly cobbled together in Beijing or Washington by Bechtel or CCCC then presented in PDF format in TOP SECRET fashion in documents that no one will ever see... and in that PDF the thugs eat 20 or 30 billion shillings... and within months the project that no one knows begins...

NO! NO! NO!

In an OPEN society the leader encourages public participation. You draw the road. The winner is selected and given a small prize, the budget is drawn up, OPENLY and if need be people even contribute towards the cause.

And the contract is not hidden by the President in a safe somewhere. And when journalists ask, wanadanganywa ati watapewa siku moja. The whole process is very open.

And because the citizens know the importance of the road, they will chip in ushangae. You will get Kenyan engineers from abroad giving free advice. Mtapewa free tractors and equipment hadi mshindwe kwa kuziweka. You will not even need a loan from China Exim bank or U.S. Exim bank.

Even the labour iko papo hapo Kenya. Watajitolea ushangae. From raiya, to the army corp to NYS... labour force ni kubwa sana. Hitler evil as he was, rebuilt Germany in a few years because he inspired his fellow Aryans to do it.

The same in the 1930s U.S. , Fidel's Cuba... as well as Jomo in the 1960s. Jomo built Kenya on the Harambee Spirit. There was no money but people needed classrooms and roads. And the people stood behind him. And those schools and churches and roads are still there today. Of course after he tasted money and the good life and shambas...

This is what I'm talking about :

https://www.theguardian.com/global/...tecture-competition-rebuild-notre-dames-spire
just write in one language, it is much easier to follow your train of thought other than leaving the reader assuming what you trying to project.

But where in this planet do you have an open society?
Seems like ever since these ngo's came to kenya and started preaching to the negro on better modes of managing their society, my people did not only admonish their core principles and phylosophies in life and governance, whole-heartedly without vetting, embraced these foreign notions (not ideologies), which in all respects are, and never had been applied anywhere else in the world. So in this confusion, it is not a shocker seeing one of my own laying out modes ofmitigation based on these foreign delivered untruths.
That is why you keep on hearing people expressing their frustrations on the ills of the society yet very few know how to mitigate these ills a good example is corruption. To the average Kenyan, western countries and notably scandinavian countries are seen as corrupt..given, these are the most corrupt societies in the western world as these countries are usually monoethnic where trade and commerce, goes on hand in hand with old age traditions and norms. Sometimes, corruption can be carried out with a smile.
But I would appreciate when you include sustainability and emphasis of employing standards in your thoughts.
 

patco

Village Elder
#5
just write in one language, it is much easier to follow your train of thought other than leaving the reader assuming what you trying to project.

But where in this planet do you have an open society?
Seems like ever since these ngo's came to kenya and started preaching to the negro on better modes of managing their society, my people did not only admonished their core principles and phylosophies in life and governance but unvettedly and whole-heartedly embraced these foreign notions, which in all respects are (and had) never been applied anywhere else in the world.
That is why you keep on hearing people expressing their frustrations on the ills of the society yet very few know how to mitigate these ills a good example is corruption. To the average Kenyan, western countries and notably scandinavian countries are seen as corrupt..given, these are the most corrupt societies in the western world as these countries are usually monoethnic where trade and commerce, goes on hand in hand with old age traditions and norms. Sometimes, corruption can be carried out with a smile.
But I would appreciate when you include sustainability and emphasis of employing standards in your thoughts.


hehe. Sawa Jubilant. China juu zaidi.
 

patco

Village Elder
#7
No Patco...China juu ya nini na kwa faidagani?
no bro..

What is it that you don't understand from that thread? Because I've mentioned the word OPEN you immediately write me off as an NGO hack.

Democracy is about OPEN societies not Soros or Maina Kiai. Soros ni mwuuaji with his own world agenda.

Open society is what is done with public participation. Kama ni ukweli the people need a road or a market or an SGR, you involve them OPENLY.

Not doing projects because you are the president and you like billions in your pockets and you like trains. No one even knows what you signed or what the thing will carry. Now you are even hiding accidents from the public... ati isijulikane.
 

patco

Village Elder
#8
Or you wake up one morning with a plan to enrich your relatives with housing tenders. And so you command everyone to give you 1.5% of their salary.

Hio sio OPEN democracy. Hio ni wizi.
 

Regis2812

Village Elder
#9
Omg
Bro, are you menstruating?
If you actually read my input, and not assume, you will clearly see no where I have written you off as an ngo hack or belittled your intelligence, to the contrary!
You will also see im seeking for a clarification of on what you term as an open society as I have never heard of such apart from members of the LPD:p
I've lived in a society where there is a data base for all government procurement, the threshold set at 10,000 dollars minimum, mind you, this is a developed country but as you can see, anywhere between 0-9,999 USD is fair game and evelopes are interchanged at will with a smile and a handshake.

Again, by the end of the day, it all comes down to the levels of profficiency in civic education for any given population.
Even then, then human nature will always lead to some sort of favourism..it has always been like that from the begining of time. That is why you see colleges and institutions of higher learning advocating the benefits of alumni.
A population in Ferguson Missouri, or Flint in Michigan with always be dealt with a short hand than the dwellers of affluent hoods in Chicago like Forest Glen or Beverly. You get the same pattern in Kenya as well.
Tujadiliane tafadhali
 
#10
One thing I have always wondered is that do we really lack the capacity to have our own engineers build stuff like thika superhighway or the mombasa-nairobi road?
 

patco

Village Elder
#11
One thing I have always wondered is that do we really lack the capacity to have our own engineers build stuff like thika superhighway or the mombasa-nairobi road?

No we don't lack the capacity, not at all. I'm certain even you yourself you have relatives who have studied abroad. And they work there. And if you ask them, they'll tell you how they aced the exams there. Hata tunajulikana. So in Kenya itself we have professionals and even abroad we also have professionals. Very very capable. Like that guy who eased London transport. Ni Mkenya. Lakini hutawai mwuona Kenya because he is against the code of eating.

What I suspect happens is the STATUS QUO, tge leadership, they conspire for instance to give tenders to shoddy cowboy contractors like Kirinyaga contractors.

The conspiracy here being that Kenyans will say afterwards that ALL KENYAN CONTRACTORS ARE USELESS!!!

And the govt. never arrests Kirinyaga or other cowboy contractors. These fellows are placed there like actors, TO FAIL.

This is called creating a problem so you can create a solution.

The solution here is the FOREIGN INVESTOR/ FOREIGN CONTRACTOR.

Already in our hearts we have been made to accept that only FOREIGNORS can be trusted with money or can do the job.

After Kenyans accept that falsehood, kuleta an outsider ni rahisi sana. Na kukula pia ni rahisi sana tena sana. Everything is coordinated outside the country.
 

patco

Village Elder
#12
Another example of how to create a problem and create a solution.

As a leader if you want to corner milk production in Kenya, you just let KCC to die. You refuse to fund it and completely refuse to pay farmers. What happens?

Farmers complain. Raiya complain. There is no saviour.

Si halafu unakuja na kampuni yako. You are now a billionaire.

Repeat this for Telkom Kenya, Uchumi, KNH etc etc.

You let all the telephone posts to fall to the ground na zikuliwe na mchwa. You steal all the copper wire. You destroy all the phone booths.
And don't pay the workers. f**k them.

Then you start Safaricom.
 

patco

Village Elder
#13
If you want your own SGR and dry port forever and ever what do you do?

You first make sure the first railroad is dead. Pretend to revive it then kill it completely.

And make sure anyone who mentions the old railway is said to be a mad man and an enemy of development.

Now you are ready. Now you have an SGR.
 

Bigfish1

Village Elder
#16
Very true, only problem with us is people are very corrupt, in fact extremely corrupt.
Someone will pay people to table his idea and move decisions towards him.
I hate to be negative but there are very few straight forward people in our country.
 

Regis2812

Village Elder
#18
Very true, only problem with us is people are very corrupt, in fact extremely corrupt.
Someone will pay people to table his idea and move decisions towards him.
I hate to be negative but there are very few straight forward people in our country.
Yes, it is a dog eat dog society.
Worse is those that purpote to fight the inequity forces, the stupidos believing they fighting on their behalf..now nani got a d*ck shake, wakafurahi..but that was limited as those bills must be paid or bibi taenda kwa jirani hence our dear brother patco coming here to aerate his armpit.
Shyt is real..
 

patco

Village Elder
#20
Very true, only problem with us is people are very corrupt, in fact extremely corrupt.
Someone will pay people to table his idea and move decisions towards him.
I hate to be negative but there are very few straight forward people in our country.
It is sad but not all is lost. Sio kila mtu mbaya. Maybe we need rewiring in our thinking.
 
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