Is a virgin birth what God intended for all mankind?

Libra12

Senior Villager
#21
Assuming the fall of mankind didn’t happen, how did God intend Adam and Eve to multiply? Eve had to remain a virgin like Mary.
This is hard one since God already knew how creation would play out. However, assuming they never sinned, my best guess, they would have reproduced the normal way. I dont think sin could have affected the normal means of conception and birth.
 
#22
This is hard one since God already knew how creation would play out. However, assuming they never sinned, my best guess, they would have reproduced the normal way. I dont think sin could have affected the normal means of conception and birth.
If they would have reproduced the normal way, then why didn’t they commence on the command to “multiply and fill the earth” as soon as God created Eve out of Adam’s rib?
There’s no evidence Adam and Eve even tried to reproduce together, until after the fall. Assuming the fall didn’t happen, would Eve have experienced the pain of childbirth?
 

Libra12

Senior Villager
#23
A
If they would have reproduced the normal way, then why didn’t they commence on the command to “multiply and fill the earth” as soon as God created Eve out of Adam’s rib?
There’s no evidence Adam and Eve even tried to reproduce together, until after the fall. Assuming the fall didn’t happen, would Eve have experienced the pain of childbirth?
Sin did bring along pain in childbirth. So yes, assuming the fall never happened childbirth would be as painless as blinking. In response to the first question, lets observe the genealogical record given in Gen 3 onward, we see these guys used to even have kids while they were several hundred years old. SO it should have been a matter of time anyway. Again, this is my guess.
 
#24
The mystery and imortance of the virgin birth is this, remember after the fall of Adam (the first man) everyone else that was born of the seed of Adam had an inherent sin nature. Since birth, EVERYONE WAS INCLINED TO SIN. A classic example is that of small kids, no one shows them what sin is, they chose to sin even before knowing what's right from wrong. So Jesus not being born of the normal way (man+woman=child) He automatically didn't have a sin nature. Thus, Jesus was not born in sin; that is, He had no sin nature. The Virgin Birth circumvented the transmission of the sin nature and allowed the eternal God to become a perfect man.
However, can the same thing apply to everyone else? I'd advise you to read John 3, Jesus answered the question,
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. [1] "4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit [2] gives birth to spirit.7You should not be surprised at my saying, `You [3] must be born again.'

So what does this mean? That to get rid of that sin nature which automatically makes us sinners (thus causing us to sin) we must be 'birthed' a new. A birth that now involved the Spirit of God- being born again.
If Adam and Eve didn't have sin nature, why did Eve sin? If Jesus could overcome temptation because he didn't have sin nature how did the devil tempt Eve?
 

Libra12

Senior Villager
#25
If Adam and Eve didn't have sin nature, why did Eve sin? If Jesus could overcome temptation because he didn't have sin nature how did the devil tempt Eve?
Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command. It's not that prior to eating the fruit they didn't know what was good or what was bad, they knew. That's why Eve said, we were told not to eat... The work of the devil is to steal, kill and destroy. So his bending of the truth to Eve was one of his ways to bring in chaos in the beautiful work of God in creation. Jesus case was however different, unlike Adam and Eve, He did manage to overcome the temptations from the devil. That's why He was able to do more than revert the broken relationship from Adam's disobedience and sin entrance into the world
 
#26
A

Sin did bring along pain in childbirth. So yes, assuming the fall never happened childbirth would be as painless as blinking. In response to the first question, lets observe the genealogical record given in Gen 3 onward, we see these guys used to even have kids while they were several hundred years old. SO it should have been a matter of time anyway. Again, this is my guess.
I wonder if the other animals in Eden were reproducing sexually. Probably not. Because animals must go in heat to reproduce and that brings in the whole animal nature of aggression and dominance yet the Bible says that the animals were gentle, even the lion was as gentle as a lamb. I believe Adam, a being in the image of God, could speak them into existence for replenishment.
Now, how would two people who didn’t know they were naked or what those body parts were for, come to the knowledge of sexual reproduction? Yet God had shown Adam the means of multiplying mankind when he created mankind (Eve) out of his rib and the dust? Clearly, God never did intend children to be born by sex, but it was permitted, which soon will fade away.
 
#27
If Adam and Eve didn't have sin nature, why did Eve sin?
Eve was spiritually weaker than Adam because she came out of him, whereas Adam was God’s original creation. Satan could not dare tempt Adam but Adam willingly went along with Eve’s deception not because he believed the lie but to literally save her life.

1 Timothy 2:14. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
If Adam refused to sin with her, it was so easy, God would have killed Eve and then given Adam a new wife. Why did he do it? Love.
 
#28
The mystery and imortance of the virgin birth is this, remember after the fall of Adam (the first man) everyone else that was born of the seed of Adam had an inherent sin nature. Since birth, EVERYONE WAS INCLINED TO SIN. A classic example is that of small kids, no one shows them what sin is, they chose to sin even before knowing what's right from wrong. So Jesus not being born of the normal way (man+woman=child) He automatically didn't have a sin nature. Thus, Jesus was not born in sin; that is, He had no sin nature. The Virgin Birth circumvented the transmission of the sin nature and allowed the eternal God to become a perfect man.
However, can the same thing apply to everyone else? I'd advise you to read John 3, Jesus answered the question,
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. [1] "4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit [2] gives birth to spirit.7You should not be surprised at my saying, `You [3] must be born again.'

So what does this mean? That to get rid of that sin nature which automatically makes us sinners (thus causing us to sin) we must be 'birthed' a new. A birth that now involved the Spirit of God- being born again.
So if Jesus had no sin nature then why did Satan try to tempt him into sinning in the desert? In fact, why did Satan think he could tempt God let's start there.
 

Libra12

Senior Villager
#29
So if Jesus had no sin nature then why did Satan try to tempt him into sinning in the desert? In fact, why did Satan think he could tempt God let's start there.
You must also remember that Christ came in the flesh, He was 100% human and 100% God. And the norm of us humans (just as He was) we not only struggle against our sinful nature, we live in a fallen world and the devil is till roaming around looking for one to devour. We know that Jesus didn't have that sin nature, however He was still subject to fall in sin (which He didn't) due to the world and the devil. So yes, the devil did try, but he just couldn't. Christ was able to overcome the sinful wiles of the world and the devil. That's why the bible is able to say that He was tempted in everyway (just like us) there's no temptation Jesus didn't face and He overcame it. That's what makes substitutionary atonment.
 

MojaOne

Senior Villager
#30
You must also remember that Christ came in the flesh, He was 100% human and 100% God. And the norm of us humans (just as He was) we not only struggle against our sinful nature, we live in a fallen world and the devil is till roaming around looking for one to devour. We know that Jesus didn't have that sin nature, however He was still subject to fall in sin (which He didn't) due to the world and the devil. So yes, the devil did try, but he just couldn't. Christ was able to overcome the sinful wiles of the world and the devil. That's why the bible is able to say that He was tempted in everyway (just like us) there's no temptation Jesus didn't face and He overcame it. That's what makes substitutionary atonment.
You know that 100% means totally or completely. So your statement about Jesus Christ being 100% human and 100% God(btw God is a title not the name of any deity) is completely meaningless. Jesus Christ was the son of an earthly mother and Heavenly Father, that makes Him both human and God but not 100% of any of those.
If He had been 100% God, He could be above the limitations of this world and not subjective to any of the struggles that humans face while on this earth. Now that would beat the purpose of Him being a messiah come to Atone for our sins.
Since He was the son of a God, he could not be 100% human.

It’s amazing how we always quote other people’s thoughts as truths without thinking for ourselves and confirming these truths. Then we are further controlled by being told that it’s sacrilegious to question “Things of God”
 

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