The "Gender Pay Gap"...and Other Political Fiction

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This might have been better suited to the politics section because essentially (feminist) politics based on spurious facts, but anyway…Over the last 2 decades, more so recently, we have been seeing a lot of this “gender pay gap”, “Women earn 70 cents to every man’s dollar”…and so on, upussss ad infinitum…

So much has been done to show this international Zeitgeist is misplaced, erroneous and fallacious but the “women’s movement”, that now has been raising it’s cuckolds & white knights for the last 3-4 decades, plods on…

Saw this post on capital today, concerning the aforementioned…
[ATTACH=full]78685[/ATTACH]

More on this [here](‘http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2017/01/germany-hopes-public-payslips-will-close-gender- pay-gap/’)

Problem with this PC-SJW society we live in nowadays is that this will soon be taken as, if not already, gospel truth, despite the fact it is illegal to pay women less in this day and age in many countries, especially in the so called west.

Without further ado I shall post counter arguments based on fact & reality, by feminists and other human beings who continue to work against the push by the feminine imperative and their political cohorts.

First is by Warren Farrell - a former feminist, and headed the NOW (national organisation for women) outfit thrice, a well respected author.
Why Men Earn More:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl0JcZfFGQw

Second is Christina Hoff Sommers, who goes as the factual feminist on youtube, etc. She is a well known professor & feminist, a smart one.

The Gender Wage Gap Uses Bogus Statistics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w

[SIZE=4]The Gender Gap: What the World Economic Forum got wrong[/SIZE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGI2YggNJCc

Third is a video by Men & Women Are From Earth:
[SIZE=4]Gender Pay Gap Myth Exposed[/SIZE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwFTU1jh_MMhttps:

Fact is, as even highly feminised societies like Sweden are beginning to realise, is that men & women are different, and, so are their choices.

Sooner or later we might start to hear laws that force employers to have a female quota with regards to hiring, rather than just hiring qualified personnel.
I worked in a place about 5 yrs ago, a place supported by a Rockefeller funded outfit, that was supposed to help less fortunate students pay their way - here they wanted a 75:25 split, 75% women, 25% men…like men don’t need help, especially in this day & age.

Anyway, this may by TL;DR for many…feel free to contribute &/or kojolea the thread as appropos…

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Unlike women,we men have more responsibilities.For instance living upto societal expectations shiet

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One of the nordic countries already has a quota on men and women in board meetings.
However even if the gender pay gap is a myth what do you say to the prevailing society’s view that some jobs are only meant to be done by a man and studies that show that if a men enter a certain job its wages rise e.g nursing?
How much are the choices conditioned by genetics vs society? Things like having a male nanny are frowned upon and even if I have progressive views I would not let a man take care of my kids. Same as being worried if I left a car to a woman. Are you 100% per cent you chose what you like just because of your genes and you weren’t guided by society?

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I hear you.
The thing is the feminine imperative backed by political (misplaced) ‘goodwill’ & the media (and the elites) keep trying to push this whole ‘gender is a social construct’ business, and act, like women & men are the same. We may have equal rights, support that fully 1000%, but we are not the same.
Ergo, you find that the reality on the ground is as such:
We have had the increased feminization of boys & institutions, so boys are growing up thinking that the more they “lean in” as Sheryl Sandberg is saying the more they will be accepted by women as manly…more masculine. But reality on the ground shows that the more men become effeminate or take on female roles the more the women grow distant and less likely to fuck their said husbands/partners.
This probably underpins women now accounting for 70% filed divorces in the west.
As men there are simply things that are innate to us, and our biology. Ditto women!
And there are societal expectations of us as men, even by women, regardless of the politics they push, OR, are suckered into.

We really have to be chonjo especially those of us who plan to raise, or are raising, families…the next 2 -3 generations will be a thing to witness…

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MGTOW is the future.

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Good points, that’s why I think the third gender rule applied in Kenya is bs.

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I hear what you’re saying bingwa.
However, I think in this day & age we get caught too much in trying to be political in light of the fact that reality & research are shouting truths at us.
“what do you say to the prevailing society’s view that some jobs are only meant to be done by a man and studies that show that if a men enter a certain job its wages rise e.g nursing?”

The thing is, as Warren, Christina, Thomas Sowell, and many others have pointed out men & women are suited to different things - therefore you will find more men taking on riskier jobs where there is a high probability of death, like oil rigs, mines, etc. It doesn’t mean you won’t find women in those jobs but men will be overwhelmingly represented.
Also, on nurses, you find that wages are at par. Research has shown however that men take more risks, and work later hours more than women, so they get paid more, merely because they generally choose to put more value on more dollars at the end of the day. While women are generally shown to look for a more balanced life - more family, more part time work, etc.

How much are the choices conditioned by genetics vs society?
I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. However, nurture follows nature.
I could offer an opinion but these 2 docs do it better:

The Gender Equality Paradox 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70

Gender Madness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAwIYWwoCbs

As an aside, there’s always an interesting debate about how women may be more, or just as, sexual as men. Men have 17 times the testosterone women have, female body-builders who take testosterone supplements & boosters always report how their sex drive goes through the roof…

I would to see women walk around this town with 17 times the testosterone…:D:D:D

Nature cannot be negated. And I believe nurture/society can only build on or mess around with this.

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Enlighten me bro…

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:D:D:D:D:D:D

To some extent MGTOW is the logical response to the ravages of feminism over the last 5-6 decades, and rightly so.
However, I believe that it is better more men become more alpha, because we cannot avoid being around women…we can’t live without them (& pussy), most of us anyway.
Why would we want to?

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The feminist constitution we have that led to the creation of meaningless posts such as Woman Rep. and many nominated joy-riding and dickriding female senators, MP’s and MCAs, who have nothing to show for positions they hold.

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I am not bingwa.

There was a time women were active in comp science and then in the 90s it became male dominated. In physical jobs women will never be able to make it. But what about mental ones.

About the longer hours. Women are expected to be there for their kids. That itself is a societal norm. If a woman is never at home we will call her a bad mother.

Equality does not mean sameness. What people mean is that everyone should have the same rights because they are human.

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Aaaah yes. Spot on!
Government largesse is definitely a feature of an increasingly gynocentric society.

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“There was a time women were active in comp science and then in the 90s it became male dominated. In physical jobs women will never be able to make it. But what about mental ones.”

Thing is why does that happen? Is it because women make choices to raise a family? Or is it because male domination is equivalent to discrimination?
Even with regards to mental capacity, that is, how the brain is wired. It has been found that men’s and women’s brains are wired differently.
So a distribution curve for intelligence will have women more at the centre and men hill have a higher concentration at the extreme ends, i.e. Men tend to be either very smart/geniuses/intelligent & very dumb.

So it doesn’t mean that there are less women scientists because of discrimination, but that men are more predisposed to the technical, to risk taking, and to application of higher intelligence.

“About the longer hours. Women are expected to be there for their kids. That itself is a societal norm. If a woman is never at home we will call her a bad mother.”

For the last 30 - 40years societal norms have shifted fam! Women now (think they) can ‘have it all’. But there is such a thing as biology, and something else called opportunity cost. Women have a biological clock which cannot be denied. Even in this day and age when many of them choose to ignore this, and pursue a career, which is not bad, they still expect to have their cake and eat. It can’t work like that, the fact is families work better when a parent(s) spends more time in their children’s formative years. Another fact is that women are more predisposed to nurturing, especially earlier on.
So though it may be partly societal pressure it is also biological & anthropological reality that has helped societies & humanity grow and survive.

Plus no one forces women to be mothers…especially these days.

“Equality does not mean sameness. What people mean is that everyone should have the same rights because they are human.”
Which rights don’t women have nowadays in urbanised/westernized societies?
I’m all for equal rights. Problem is, is that on the ground, the feminine imperative, backed by government, media & elites is pushing the whole gender fluidity thing.
Hence the new obsession with trannies & pronouns and all that shit now in the west. Leading to such upussss - www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/pregnant-man-hayden-cross-sperm-donor-facebook-paused-transition-father-first-give-birth-a7515701.html
And they are making legislation to back it up.
We all have a right to be paid for the time we put in, but should a woman be paid the same as a man, who has put in more time, when she hasn’t? And vice versa?

Again I challenge you to show me countries, or companies in this globalized world who pay women less, because they are women?

The logic follows, if women were indeed paid less, companies would be flooded with them…no?

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First of all you’re changing goal posts. I commented earlier that the gender pay gap is a myth. However what I am saying is that we all have biases we aren’t robots. Based on how we are raised we’ll think a black man with a certain name will be a bad candidate for a job or a woman won’t be a good fit for a tech role. Laws come in to ensure that those biases don’t interfere with rights. Those rights are not denied explicitly but they are denied implicitly sometimes even without knowing we have biases that will lead us to think a certain way. If you follow Sillicon Valley news you’ll hear people talking about “culture”. A word that can be used to exclude a group based on socio-economic differences without lawsuits. Same can be used to exclude women.

You are wrong that they have shifted women even if they work will still do housework if they don’t employ househelps. We still malign women who don’t marry by 30. We will expect that a woman will know how to make a meal for her family. The reality in this day and age is that you might need help taking care of some expenses in the house and your wife will do some of that but even if she does she will still go to make a meal while you are watching TV.

If you ever wonder why discrimination happens follow the money. In the 90s we had the dotcom boom and with it came more men, like I said above we are human and we have biases. One bias is that we will look for those who mirror our qualities some which are due to upbringing race and gender. That led to women not being employed as much as men.

I’ll finish off by saying that I am not a feminist but I read a lot of research by economists on discrimination of black people but then I got thinking. If this is true then what makes me think that men can’t discriminate against women just like they discriminate against black people

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@mona_lisa na @MaryJane hebu kujeni kidogo

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Firstly, on the the whole issue of biases - Yes, we have and are raised to have biases. However, one, this can’t be the whole story, and two, maybe some of those biases may be based on truth or realities on the ground. I’ll explain this later…

“We still malign women who don’t marry by 30. We will expect that a woman will know how to make a meal for her family. The reality in this day and age is that you might need help taking care of some expenses in the house and your wife will do some of that but even if she does she will still go to make a meal while you are watching TV.”

Firstly, who is “we” you keep referring to? WHO 'expects’? Correctly contextualize your assertions.
I not negating your point of view. However, what do we also see, women delay marriage and/or family, if they are able, then realise they have lost their fertile years, or have gotten some disease that has rendered their womb useless, OR, men are justifiably not interested because they aren’t interested in marriage or have younger and better options. Then they complain, on a societal scale, that men are not stepping up…NO!
There are consequences to choices…some biases stem nature, and anthropological expression of biological disposition…and rightly so.

Moreover as I had said earlier, if men take on those household responsibilities, they begin to lose attractiveness in the eyes of their women. WOMEN are saying this, in a day and age where men will gladly be stay at home dads and/or take up household responsibilities. How many musings have you heard from and/or around the so called ‘modern women’ that confirm this?

“In the 90s we had the dotcom boom and with it came more men, like I said above we are human and we have biases. One bias is that we will look for those who mirror our qualities some which are due to upbringing race and gender. That led to women not being employed as much as men.”

Follow the money you say…maybe because men are more predisposed to risk and profit this resulted in more men pursuing the boom. Maybe women not being employed was more that less women were more likely to follow the boom. I’m sure you’ll find the same with sub-prime…

“If this is true then what makes me think that men can’t discriminate against women just like they discriminate against black people”

You’re conflating issues here. I didn’t say women aren’t discriminated against; just that discrimination vis a vis the pay gap is justified and not some chauvinist plot by men worldwide. Also not all discrimination is bad, if men or women are better (suited) to certain jobs/occupations more than either gender, should we then force the other gender, based on ad hoc bullshit politicized science, to then take up those same jobs/occupations?

We discriminate even within gender too…we can’t give everyone prizes fam…

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When has society ever been right on anything. Basically you are saying that may be those biases are good . But there was a time black people were also thought to be inferior and predisposed to violence. That they could only do work that was physical and not mentally tasking. People who thought this had conviction they never thought of it as a plot to bring down black people. They thought of them as lesser beings the same way you see a donkey you use to carry water. In the same way people who might pass on a woman aren’t thinking we must make sure women don’t get these jobs. They just do it with no second thought as to why they don’t want her.

The we is society. We are all responsible for the good and ills of our time.

The small 8% gap that remains is what I have been debating all this time. The 23% gap you’re arguing against is a strawman that you have made and are pummelling furiously for no reason. The 8% gap is what I am saying is caused by biases in hiring, conditioning and societal expectations. Biases are subconcious and we have to always make sure we fight against them. STOP TALKING TO ME ABOUT THE 77 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR I NEVER ARGUED ABOUT THAT. I am argue that the 8% is because of choices in career and we tend to devalue women’s careers or we guide them towards certain paths because of our biases. Biases will never lead to making good decisions.

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Thanks for the tag @vuja de but I didn’t bother to read the essays above.

Endeleeni kupiga kelele sisi tukipewa doh zetu. There was a time when women couldn’t vote or own property because we were considered as property ourselves. Male chauvinists made noise but guess who won that fight? I suggested y’all focus on the boy child mwache kutusumbua.

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Those rights were not fought for by women alone. Also unless you want to have girls or you don’t plan on having kids at all. The problems of the boy child will also affect you.

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“When has society ever been right on anything.”
Very loaded statement right there…

“Basically you are saying that may be those biases are good”
Again we’re conflating things. I already said not all discrimination is good, not all is bad. Let’s stop with the virtue signalling. If laws are made to uplift a section of society which has no say, that is good discrimination. Kapisch?

“In the same way people who might pass on a woman aren’t thinking we must make sure women don’t get these jobs. They just do it with no second thought as to why they don’t want her.”
There may be subconscious bias. However, how much does this play out in a reality where it is illegal to put these biases into practice, in regards to women?
How prevalent is this?

“We are all responsible for the good and ills of our time.”
Exactly goods and ills.

“I am argue that the 8% is because of choices in career and we tend to devalue women’s careers or we guide them towards certain paths because of our biases. Biases will never lead to making good decisions”
Fine. But is this really prevalent in our current context?
Society devalue “women’s careers”? C’mon now…which decade is this you are living in fam?

We both agree on the wage gap myth. However, I disagree on how much subconscious bias plays out, in reality, with regard to how we view ‘women’s careers’ and their employability or lack thereof. As much as they exist, I just don’t think it is as prevalent in practice as you think it is.