To Christians -especially catholics- and also Mayekeke.

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#1
Preface

From the onset, I want to state clearly that as a fairly learned fellow, I rarely fall for religious deceptions/ supernatural claims. I frequently analyse books/confessions from people who have claimed to have had supernatural experiences but, in most cases, I don’t find God or Jesus in those claims. Visions of heaven and hell are all over the internet but I treat them with lots of suspicion.

About a year ago, however, I came across this 5 volume book by an Italian mystic called Maria Valtorta. Valtorta claimed to have had personal conversations with Jesus, which resulted in about 15,000 hand written pages detailing the life of Jesus. This represented over 700 episodes of Jesus’ life, most of which are of course not recorded in the gospel.

I must frankly admit that going through these volumes, I have been moved in spirit in a way that I have never experienced before. I am confident that her visions were authentic.

Now, I plead with all atheists to keep off this thread because I want to address myself to believers(including Mayekeke) so that you can give your views regarding these revelations.

The poem of Man God aka The gospel as revealed to me.

This book offers in a very detailed manner the life of Jesus. In fact, you will be surprised to learn that it is about 500 times bigger than ,say, the Mathew gospel. From Jesus childhood to his ascension you come to terms with the real Jesus, his disciples, how they looked(BTW ,Judas, is described as having been a very handsome man but corrupted by his city’s debauchery) , the petty arguments that the disciples always had, how Jesus looked like, his loving eyes when he preached BUT his severe eyes when he admonished….etc, etc, etc, etc.

In short if you want to know who exactly Jesus was and the specific circumstances that made him use parables, it’s all in the book.

You may ask: how true is this book?

Lets see what scientists have said about the book

The poem of Man God: First scientifically approved revelation?

a) One of the most amazing things about the book is that all the 700 hundreds episodes were not written in chronological order. Maria would for instance start with the beatitudes, crucifixion, birth and so one but when the episodes were rearranged by her spiritual mentor, they perfectly flowed. Keep in mind that the book contains over 500 persons. So, scientists question how was it possible for someone who was bed ridden to write a narrative in no particular order? Look at it this way: can you write a novel of 700 chapters with over 500 characters starting with chapter 14, then 76 , then 3 then 397 and so on?

b) The geography of Palestine: Scientists have been amazed at how Maria- who never left italy as she was bedridden- could know ancient Palestine towns that are being discovered today. Some towns in the book were discovered by archaeologists much later after the book had been published.

c) The stars on the eve of crucifixion. Let me quote Wikipedia regarding Maria’s stellar description on the eve of crucifixion:


‘In episode written on December 11, 1945 Valtorta wrote of a night Jesus spent atGadara:

"The sky is glistening with countless stars... with its springtime constellations and the magnificent stars of Orion: of Rigil and Betelgeuse, of Aldebaran, of Perseus, Andromeda and Cassiopeia and the Pleiades united like sisters. And Sapphirine Venus covered with diamonds, and Mars of pale ruby and the topaz of Jupiter..."

In 1992Purdue UniversityphysicistLonnie VanZandtanalyzed these events to estimate a date for the event described.[18]Using a computer simulation, VanZandt noted that the only possibilities for the observation Valtorta described during the month of March would be AD31 and AD33, and after considering other elements in the narrative concluded that March AD33 was the only possibility.[18]According to VanZandt the estimation of the joint observability of these three stars and the position of the moon during that time would have been almost impossible without a computer system.[18]



Crucifixion:

Maria then describes in a graphic detail the whole process ofcrucifixion of Jesus and one doctor said that very few doctors could actually have managed to describe what Maria described. In her description, she medically describes Jesus death in a way that many many doctors cannot be able to. Keep in mind she was simply a simple uneducated woman.


Much Much More.

I really cannot exhaust this book. Of course the Catholic Church has opposed this book but I want people with open minds to read this book and make their own judgements.

The best place to begin with is to start with this website: valtorta.org or even the Wikipedia. The book simply goes into deeper details regarding Jesus teachings. These will be some of your experiences:

a) Jesus will clarify for you what he meant by ‘ this generation will not pass away’

b) You will discover that Jesus first appeared to his mother before Mary Magdalene(after resurrection)

c) You will see the sheer attempts that Jesus made to save Judas but all in vain(including Jesus terribly weeping and beseeching Judas not to go to Jerusalem).

d) You will discover why, in Jesus words, Judas is the greatest sinner ever(not the likes of Hitler)

e) You will discover why the woman caught in adultery was ultimately not saved.

f) You will discover why Jesus said that of all people who believed in him, only Mary Magdalene fully understood Jesus.

g) You will read about all that satan told jesus when he tempted him/

h) You will read about why, in the end of days, three-quarter of Christians will renounce jesus.

i) You will discover that the infamous antichrist will be a spiritual figure in human form and not a political leader as such.

j) You will learn that we have millions and millions of planets with lives. In fact, this is what Jesus says about extraterrestrial lives:

I would be a very small and limited God the Creator if I had created only the Earth asan inhabitedworld! With a beat of My will I have brought forth worlds upon worlds from nothing and cast them as luminous fine dust into the immensity of the firmament.

"The Earth, about which you are so proud and fierce, is nothing but one of the bits of fine dust rotating in unboundedness, and notthe biggest one. It is certainly the most corrupt one, though. Lives upon lives are teeming in the millions of worlds which are the joy of your gaze on peaceful nights, andthe perfection of God will appear to you when, with the intellectual sight of your spirits rejoined to God, you are able to see the wonders of those worlds.

k) you will discover how dead the universe will be come the resurrection day(stars moon and the sun all dead)


You can start with this website: valtorta.org and I have also uploaded 1 volume of the book.
 

Attachments

#2
For example, this is the full episode where Jesus meets a Samaritan woman at the well



Jesus asksthe Samaritan woman at Jacob's well for a drink. Jesus invites her to repent of her past abortions to receive God's forgiveness.


The sparrows fly away when a woman arrives near the well. With her left hand she is holding an empty amphora by one of its handles, while her right hand with a gesture of surprise pushes aside her veil to see who the man is sitting there. Jesus smiles at the 35 to 40 year old woman. She is tall, with a beautiful strongly marked figure. A Spanish type, we would say: a pale olive complexion, rather thick bright-red lips, dark eyes which are exceedingly large, very dark eyebrows and hair, visible through her transparent veil. Also her rather plump features are typically oriental and slightly soft, as is customary with Arab women. Her dress is a multicolored striped robe, which is held very tight round her waist and her plump sides and breast, and then falls to the ground in a kind of wavy fringe. She is wearing several rings on her plumb dark fingers and bracelets on her wrists, which appear under her linen sleeves. Round her neck she wears a heavy necklace from which some medals are hanging: I should call them amulets because they are of all shapes. Heavy earrings hang down as far as her neck and shine under her veil.

"Peace be with you, woman. Will you give Me some water to drink? I have walked a long way and I am thirsty."

"Are You not a Judaean? And You ask me, a Samaritan woman, to give You a drink? What has happened? Have we been rehabilitated or have you been routed? A great event must have taken place, if a Judaean speaks kindly to a Samaritan woman. But I should say to You: 'I will not give You anything, to punish in You all the insults the Jews have been heaping on us for centuries.'"

"You are right. A great event has taken place. And because of it many things have changed and many more will change. God has granted a great gift to the world and through it many things have changed. If you knew the gift of God and Who is saying to you: 'Give Me a drink', perhaps you would have asked Him to give you a drink and He would give you living water."

"Living water is in the veins of the earth. It is in this well. But it is ours." The woman's tone is derisive and arrogant.

"Water comes from God. As bounty comes from God. As life comes from God. Everything belongs to the one only God, woman. And all men come from God: Samaritans and Judaeans. Is this not Jacob's well? And is not Jacob the head of our race? If later on an error divided us, that does not change our origin."

"Of course, it was our error, was it not?" the woman asks aggressively.

"Neither ours nor yours. It was the error of one who had lost sight of Charity and Justice. I do not wish to offend you or your race. Why do you wish to strike an offensive attitude.?"

"You are the first Judaean whom I hear speak thus. The others...But reverting to the well, yes, it is Jacob's and its water is so plentiful and clear that we in Sychar prefer it to other fountains. But it is very deep. You have neither amphora nor bucket. How could You, therefor, draw living water for me? Are You greater than our holy Patriarch Jacob, who found this abundant vein for himself, his sons and his cattle and left it to us as his souvenir and gift?"

"You are right. But whoever drinks this water, will be thirsty again. I instead have a water and whoever drinks it will not be thirsty again. But it is only Mine. And I will give it to whoever asks Me for it. And I solemnly tell you that whoever has the water I give him, will always be satisfied and will never be thirsty again, because My water will be an unfailing eternal spring."

"What? I do not understand. Are You a magician? How can a man become a well? A camel drinks and lays a supply of water in his big stomach. But he then consumes it and it does not last all his life. And You say that Your water lasts a whole lifetime?"

"Even longer: it will last until eternal life. In those who drink it, it will gush until eternal life and will give germs of eternal life, because it is a spring of health."

"Give me some of that water, if You really have it. I get tired coming here. If I have it, I will not be thirsty any more and I will never be ill or become old."

"Is that the only thing of which you get tired? Of nothing else? And you feel only the need of drawing water to drink and satisfy your poor body? Think about it. There is something more important than your body. Your soul. Jacob did not procure only the water of the earth for himself and his sons. He was anxious to be holy and to bestow holiness, the water of God."

"You call us heathens... If what You say is true, we cannot be holy..." The woman's tone is no longer insolent and ironical and she is submissive and somewhat confused.

"Also a heathen can be virtuous. And God, Who is just, will reward him for the good he has done. It will not be a complete reward, but I can tell you that between a guilty believer and an innocent heathen, God looks at the latter with less severity. And if you know you are such, why do you not come to the True God? What is your name?"

"Photinai."

"Well, tell Me, Photinai, are you sorry that you cannot aspire to holiness because you are a heathen, as you say, or because you are in the haze of an old error, as I say?"

"Yes, I am sorry."

"Well, then, why do you not live at least as a virtuous heathen?"

"Lord!..."

"Yes, can you deny it? Go and call your husband and come back here with him."

"I have no husband." The embarassment of the woman increases.

"You have spoken the truth. You have no husband. But you have had five men and you have one with you now who is not your husband. Was that necessary? Also your religion condemns lewdness. You have the Decalogue, too. Why then, Photinai, do you live thus? Are you not tired of the exertion of being flesh for everybody, instead of being the honest wife of one man only? Are you not afraid of the evening of your life, when you will be all alone with your memories and regrets? And with your fears? Yes, all those. Fear of God and of ghosts. Where are your children?"

The woman lowers her head completely and does not reply.

"You have none in this world. But their little souls, whom you prevented from seeing the day of their birth, are reproaching you. And they always will. Jewels...beautiful dresses... a splendid house... a bountiful table... But emptiness, and tears, and interior misery. You are forlorn, Photinai. And only through sincere repentance, through God's forgiveness and consequently through your children's forgiveness, you can become rich again."

"Lord, I see that You are a prophet. And I am ashamed.."

"And when you were doing evil things, were you not ashamed of yourself before the Father Who is in Heaven? Do not weep out of dejection before the Man... Come here, Photinai. Come near Me. I will speak to you of God. Perhaps you did not know Him well. And that is why you have been so faulty. If you had known the True God well, you would not have degraded yourself so much. He would have spoken to you and supported you..."

"Lord, our ancestors have worshipped on this mountain. You say that one must worship only in Jerusalem. But you said that there is only One God. Help me to see what I must do and where..."

"Woman, believe Me. Before long the Father will be worshipped neither on the mountain in Samaria nor in Jerusalem. You worship Him Whom you do not know. We worship Him Whom we know, because salvation comes from the Judaeans. I remind you of the Prophets. But the time will come, nay, it has already arrived when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, no longer according to the ancient rite, but to the new one, where there will be no sacrifice of animals consumed by fire. There will be the eternal sacrifice of the Immaculate Victim consumed by the Fire of Charity. It will be a spiritual cult in a spiritual Kingdom. And it will be understood by those who are able to worship in spirit and truth. God is Spirit. Those who worship Him must do so spiritually."

"You speak holy words, I know, because we also know something, that the Messiah is about to come: the Messiah, He Who is called also "Christ". When He comes, He will teach us everything. Not far from here there is also one who is said to be His Precursor. And many go and listen to him. But he is so severe!... You are kind...and the souls of poor people are not afraid of You. I think that Christ will be good. They say that He is King of Peace. Will it be long before He comes?"

"I have told you that His hour has already come."

"How do you know? Are You perhaps one of His disciples? The Precursor has many disciples. Also Christ will have them."

"I, Who am speaking to you, am Jesus Christ."

"You!... Oh!..." The woman, who had sat down near Jesus, stands up and is about to run away.

"Woman, why are you running away?"

"Because I am struck with terror at being near You. You are holy."

"I am the Savior. I came here, although it was not necessary, because I knew that your soul was tired of wandering. You are disgusted with your food... I have come to give you a new food, which will remove your nausea and tiredness... Here are my disciples coming back with My food. But I have already been fed by giving you the first crumbs of your redemption."

The disciples glance at the woman out of the corners of their eyes, more or less prudently, but no one speaks. She goes away forgetting about her amphora and the water.
 

mayekeke

Village Elder
#3
As a Muslim much or most you've written above is not found in Islam, the only part I agree with is the part where Jesus greets with the words "peace be upon you". Jesus peace be upon him greeted his disciples like a Muslim, by saying: “Peace be unto you”, when he appeared before them after his so-called ‘resurrection' Muslims use the same words to greet, Assalaamu Alaikum (peace be upon you)

Muslims believe that Jesus peace be upon him according to the Holy Quran is a wonderful, humble, generous messenger of God who came down and revealed God's words to his people, the people of Israel. Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God, nor they believe that God ever chose to come down to earth in a form of a man to die for our sins to purify us and forgive us.

According to Islam, Jesus never died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was born to die on the cross. Muslims believe that Jesus was sentenced to death, and people thought that he got executed on the cross. The Holy Quran rejects this idea, and claims that it is a false one. Jesus never died on the cross, nor he ever died for anyone's sins. The Holy Qur'an says:

"That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them." Qur'an
(4:156-159)
 
#4
@mayekeke, then how comes most of the mainstream scientists actually agree that Jesus was crucified?

In fact, historians such as Josephus, actually mention Jesus crucifixion.
 
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mayekeke

Village Elder
#5
@mayekeke, then how comes most of the mainstream scientists actually agree that Jesus was crucified?

In fact, historians such as Josephus, actually mention Jesus crucifixion.
Yes,the crucifixion took place but it's not Jesus peace be upon him that was crucified,somebody else was crucified in his place. Remember just before Jesus peace be upon him was to be "crucified" he prayed to God to save him.

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me." John (26: 39)

God heard him and answered his prayers

"And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always." John (11:41-42)

"Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared." Hebrews (5:7)

The Christian won't accept the Muslims claim that Jesus was not crucified because the crucifixion of Jesus is the center of all Christian theology,No Crucifixion— No Christianity!
 

Ingia

Village Elder
#6
Jesus was crucified, taken down later after a few hours that couldnt have killed a man through crucifixion, and hidden. He is treated for his wounds and reappears later. He then runs away to escape the local authorities that had labeled him public enemy number 1. He goes to some place in the south east, probably India. indians have that version of jesus and without the influence of christianity. He died there much later as a teacher that he was. His suppossed concubine/wife, mary magdalene, runs away to some european country where she raises her children who would later be called sorcerer kings(safavid kings) or something like that.

Jesus disciples are not pleased that their defacto leader can run away or fear persecution. The idea that he could die and decompose is not palatable to them too, so they do not peddle that theory. Those two theories are an embarrassment to them. So they make up two smartest theories of all time.
1. That jesus actually died.
2.That jesus arose from the dead and ascended to heaven to come back later.
These are the only two pillars of the most popular faith.

I think thomas or someone like that, tried to write the original version, and his writings were denounced. the ideas of some other character known as saul/paul who dandiad christianity later were then taken as the the most truthful truth.

So mohammed comes up later and learns of this story as a caravan trader. "Aaaaah", he says to himself, ""this man was a genius", "lakini mimi ni mchungu zaidi". So he makes up stuff that some holy woman and some archangel contacted him in private and endorsed him as the defacto prophet and the greatest messenger of all time. picture him saying,"I was alone!!! I was so shocked!!!". Thats how master liars get people. Lie big, not small lies, then say you were alone so that no one can dispute, and people will start feeling you towering over them.

Similarly moses claimed to go pick commandments at the top of a mountain where it was impossible for anyone else to have been at that time. Imagine an israelite saying, "si ata mimi nilikua hapo na sikumuona huyo mungu!".You cant risk that. Moses is said to be arebellious member of the Egyptian dynasty who tried to take the throne and was repeatedly defeated and had to run away with his supporters, and a good number of them were slaves. "moses" is actually a title, and he had a name like Akhenaton or something similar. other similar egyptian names are Tutmoses(prince Tut), Ramoses/Ramses(prince Ra) and many others.
 
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sam

Senior Villager
#7
Moses is said to be a rebellious member of the Egyptian dynasty who tried to take the throne and was repeatedly defeated and had to run away with his supporters,
So mohammed comes up later and learns of this story as a caravan trader. "Aaaaah", he says to himself, ""this man was a genius", "lakini mimi ni mchungu zaidi".
Hehehe, boss hizi theories zako ulizitoa wapi, bangi nyingi ni mbaya.
 

Saka

Village Elder
#8
Jesus disciples are not pleased that their defacto leader can run away or fear persecution. The idea that he could die and decompose is not palatable to them too, so they do not peddle that theory. Those two theories are an embarrassment to them. So they make up two smartest theories of all time.
1. That jesus actually died.
2.That jesus arose from the dead and ascended to heaven to come back later.
These are the only two pillars of the most popular faith.
You have just describe a C.I.A covert operation.;);)
 

Saka

Village Elder
#9
I think thomas or someone like that, tried to write the original version, and his writings were denounced. the ideas of some other character known as saul/paul who dandiad christianity later were then taken as the the most truthful truth.
Even the official four gospel admit that they did not write everything about Christ.
 

Davidee

Village Elder
#11
All that is the work of Demons.in the end time there will exist a lot of confusion, confusion about what is truth an what is not.christians, jews and muslims exist in this confusion...what a great confusion
 
#13
Aviator, do you think sex was ever meant for pleasure? Of course no. Sex, according to Jesus(as depicted in the book) is for procreation purposes only.
Still, for those doubt the authenticity, i still ask the two questions that it seems no one is willing to answer:
a)If Valtorta was mentally sick, can mental sickness allow you to describe how stars were on the eve of the Crucifixion? Can mental sickness allow you to know some towns in 1st century palestine that were only discovered lately by archaeologists?
b)If as some claim the work was inspired by demons, how comes Satan is thoroughly attacked in the book?
 
#14
@Davidee, if the work is inspired by demons, how comes the book places so much emphasis on forgiveness, repentance, charity, kindness, prayers, fasting and many other virtues? Can the devil really fight against himself?
You know, because of the confusion, perhaps you Davidee, because of modern 'gospel', will only believe in a christian book that glorifies miracles, blessings(cars, houses) and self obsession (oh, God, you must bless me with cars so that people can see how you are great).
The reason why many people dont want anything to do with the book is that the book is very incriminating and challenges the fake faith of so many people.
In fact, this is what Jesus says about the book:
I have dictated to Maria Valtorta, a victim soul, a marvelous work. Of this work I am the Author. You yourself, Son, have taken account of the raging reactions of Satan.... You have verified the resistance that many priests oppose to this work. This also proves, Son, that he who has not sensed in the Poem the savor of the Divine, the perfume of the Supernatural, has a soul encumbered and darkened. If it were -- I do not say "read" --but studied and meditated, it would bring an immense good to souls. This work is a well-spring of serious and solid culture.... This is a work willed by Wisdom and Divine Providence for the new times. It is a spring of living and pure water. It is I, the Word living and eternal, Who have given Myself anew as nourishment to the souls that I love. I, Myself, am the Light, and the Light cannot be confused with, and still less blend Itself with, the darkness. Where I am found, the darkness is dissolved to make room for the Light
 
#15
So, aviator, many people don't want to hear that their marital beds are seems beds of fornication. Many don't want to hear it is possible for man to be performing acts of prostitution with his wife. Many don't want to hear that many marriages are simply unions of fornication.
so, @aviator, do you think blowjob(between man and his wife) is approved by God?
 

Ingia

Village Elder
#16
Ikiamka thats the time you should use it on whats available. If a god exists, why shouldnt he love blowjobs? After all his creation feels like having blojobs all time. Sex keeps couples together so that children can grow. It keeps the man providing rather than running away. OR is there a certain way tunafaa kufanya na wanawake. Ati like having sex in a respectable way? Hizo vitu mnasema ni social conditioning.

Below are some kenyan people in early 1900s. Yet siku hizi watu wanajaribu kutoa wengine nguo ati hawataki kuona uchi.

Na ujue hawa watu walikuwa wamedress for the picture, a novelty then.

ADMIN: ATA WIKIPEDIA HIZI ZIKO

Kikuyu
Kikuyu.png

Luo
Luo.png
 
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Davidee

Village Elder
#17
@Davidee, if the work is inspired by demons, how comes the book places so much emphasis on forgiveness, repentance, charity, kindness, prayers, fasting and many other virtues? Can the devil really fight against himself?
The devil can manifest himself as an angel of light, this is one of his main tactics.Doesn't modern 'gospel' also advocate for that and yet they are also corrupt due to the works of the same devil within.The devil is not really fighting against himself, he is using a clever strategy to sow seeds of discord within Christianity itself, remember the weeds and the wheat shall grow together.You are being led astray by this Maria Valtorta whose aim is to draw out disciples like you and cause further division and confusion.
 

Shaka

Village Elder
#18
the bible does not dictate how married people shud have sex. whatever works for them provided it is healthy to their body and soul is gud for them
 

aviator

Village Elder
#19
At this rate, I wont be surprised if the author also tells us that running is meant to escape from danger, not as a sport or for health reasons. My suspicion is that this woman was inspired by demons. In as much as there are good things, demons know how to operate in stealth mode so that smart people like @karl marx can be drawn in.

Is @The_atheist a member here?
 
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