What can really be done to fight against Corruption and Lawlessness in Kenya?

langatkipro

langatkipro

Village Elder
#1
#1
We all agree that Kenya is corrupt to the core. People are looting in all government offices and parastatals, from the executive to county governments and Judiciary.
Some people blame some of us for supporting Ruto saying we are the one contributing to the continuity of corruption.
Lets be honest about it.. Do you really believe that if we elect even the angels being mentioned like Kivutha Kibwana Ekuru Aukot or some compromise candidates such as Musalia who we all know the makaburi and Goldberg scandal things will change in Kenya.
Personally i believe that regardless of who wins the presidency in the next elections corruption will still be very prevalent in Kenya because our corruption does not only revolve around top leaders..its systemic and more of cultural. Even in job places people are looting. From schools principals loot money meant for free education and award themselves tenders, from hospitals the same even private sector.
Fighting corruption will require i must confess a ruthless dictator kind of president like Kagame who will use even unconstitutional means to deal with this menace. I must submit that even electing the so called angels won't change anything. Kibaki was not that corrupt more like Kivutha but we all saw what happened from Anglo Leasing, free education scandal Maize scandal Kazi kwa Vijana scandal and others. What does that tell you about Kenyans in general? Corruption in Kenya is more like now cultural problem and it will require a lot lot of effort and ruthlessness to deal with it..
A good case study is Kiambu County people thought that Kabogo Waititu were the reasons for corruption in Kiambu. It is true they were corrupt but that's not all the truth because why is it that now Waititu and Kabogo are out of office we have another scandal up now even worse than before..Corruption in Kenya is systemic and cultural issue right now and no matter who occupies power corruption is gonna thrive anyway because right from the watchmen clerks managers all the way to presidency all are corrupt. Fighting corruption in Kenya is either citizens wachoke kuchoka with corruption and they revolt and overthrow govt or along the way a ruthless dictator with intention to change things who has seen the cost of corruption rises to power. Without that i can assure you.. Lets get used to corruption and looting for the near future in Kenya.

What we are trying to do in Kenya is trying to treat the symptoms instead of treating the sickness. We are misdiagnosing the problem. Ruto Raila Uhuru Mudavadi Waititu Sonko corruption and others are jusr symptoms of the endemic systemic deeply rooted corruption problem in Kenya where even if we got rid of Ruto Raila Uhuru Mudavadi Kalonzo and others you can rest assured the next leader who will take over them will be corrupt to the core like them. Our corruption problem now has become cultural and systemic issue and would need a deep radical surgery of the society to address it from educational and foundation stages to work ethics..
 
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langatkipro

langatkipro

Village Elder
#3
#3
mikel said:
Give a suggestion, who be this dictator ?
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There is none right now on the sight. The best we can hope is that one does happen to come and rises to power or the citizens themselves do get tired with corruption and decide to revolt and overthrow the govt.
 
Ndindu

Ndindu

Village Sponsor
#5
#5
SHOOT TO KILL SENTENCE FOR ALL ECONOMIC CRIMINALS KAMA RUTO, UHURU, RAILA, PATINI, WAITITU, WAIGURU, Rotich and many others.

I have said here countless times that Africans were NOT ready for interdependence and secondly our constitution has too many freedoms. Mwafrika can only function under enslavement or colonization.
 
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dingoo_wa_ingoo

Village Sponsor
#7
#7
Tarantinoh said:
Public execution would work.
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That would be great, but then who decides who is guilty and who is not? The constitution guarantees the right to fair trial. You must first have that verdict and then exhaust the appeals processes.

Hapo ndipo polisi, DPP, mahakimu na majaji wanachiesa kama wao, na pesa inatembea, kesi inakufa.


Nilikuwa kwenu Waudo Street majuzi. Naona Marimbi iliwekwa kabro! Na kuna police post hapo karibu jino moja. Kumebadilika kweli!!
 
T

Tarantinoh

Village Sponsor
#9
#9
dingoo_wa_ingoo said:
That would be great, but then who decides who is guilty and who is not? The constitution guarantees the right to fair trial. You must first have a verdict and the appeals processes exhausted.

Hapo ndipo polisi, DPP, mahakimu na majaji wanachiesa kama wao, na pesa inatembea, kesi inakufa.


Nilikuwa kwenu Waudo Street majuzi. Naona Marimbi iliwekwa kabro! Na kuna police post hapo karibu jino moja. Kumebadilika kweli!!
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A referendum would change the due process. Kuna major changes huko I haven't been to those sides, for like six months, will go visit there soon.
 
Cheza juu

Cheza juu

Village Elder
#10
#10
1)you can't work,be in government or a relative/friend of someone in government and do business with government.All foreign firms seeking to do business with GoK must be publicly vetted,Kenyans are known to make deals with this firms or even register firms abroad then award tenders locally as if it's a foreign firm.

2)if you are involved in corruption directly or indirectly, whatever was lost must be recovered from your assets,plus an interest of 4 times the total value of your wealth (I chose 4 because in the Bible Zaccaria returned 4 times what he stole).Stop wasting time investigating,if we can't pinpoint who exactly,all people mandated to handle whatever is lost all pay back according to no 2

3) after doing number 2,you can't work for GoK or any entity doing business with GoK directly or indirectly.Neither can you contest for any election in Kenya.People associated with you are equally barred.

4) Periodic release of government business records/declassified

5)You can't be annointed a tribal leader and vie for public/ state office for your tribe will be favoured over the nation hence genesis of corruption.

6)All final court rulings must be made available to the public for scrutiny,so that we can know which judges are joking around,if the public finds your rulings mediocre you are to face no 2.

Asanteni ni hayo Tu Kwa sasa,tafakari.
 
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dingoo_wa_ingoo

Village Sponsor
#11
#11
Cheza juu said:
6)All final court rulings must be made available to the public for scrutiny,so that we can know which judges are joking around,if the public finds your rulings mediocre you are to face no 2.
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The only decisions which are currently not made public are those of magistrates. I suspect it's because they are of no jurisprudentail value :D:D. All the other higher courts publish pretty much all their decisions. You only need to know where to look and what to look for.

Implementation of your idea would be hard for many reasons:-

1. The judicial officer will simply say that D- police officers and the DPP presented him with mediocre evidence. The evidence could not sustain the charge. The only option is to let the suspect free, or did you want him to convict in the absence of evidence beyond reasonable doubt?. If anyone has a problem with the judgement, they can make use of the appeals process!

2. Such a move would interfere with the constitutionally entrenched independence of the judiciary and the constitutional system of checks and balances. You want judicial officers to make their decisions without interference from any side. And again, who is to decide which judge is "joking around"? A member of the executive? A non-lawyer? Who will provide oversight over that person?

3. Nimechoka kuandika.
 
Cheza juu

Cheza juu

Village Elder
#12
#12
dingoo_wa_ingoo said:
The only decisions which are currently not made public are those of magistrates. I suspect it's because they are of no jurisprudentail value :D:D. All the other higher courts publish pretty much all their decisions. You only need to know where to look and what to look for.

Implementation of your idea would be hard for many reasons:-

1. The judicial officer will simply say that he was presented with mediocre evidence from D- police officers. The evidence could not sustain the charge. The only option is to let the suspect free. If there was a problem with the judgement, the state can make use of the appeals process!

2. Such a move would interfere with the constitutional independence of the judiciary and the constitutional system of checks and measures. You want judicial officers to make their decisions without interference from any side. And again, who is to decide which judge is "joking around? A member of the executive? A non-lawyer? Who will provide oversight over that person?

3. Nimechoka kuandika.
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We can start with anyone with expertise on that subject making academic noise,the press and then the public will lynch the judge in the court of public opinion,after that JSC can start the process of removal.

We can tweak our laws,we can't keep saying independence, separation lack of sufficient evidence,also D- who keep bringing mediocre evidence must face no 2 unless justified
 
D

dingoo_wa_ingoo

Village Sponsor
#13
#13
Cheza juu said:
We can start with anyone with expertise on that subject making academic noise,the press and then the public will lynch the judge in the court of public opinion,after that JSC can start the process of removal.

We can tweak our laws,we can't keep saying independence, separation lack of sufficient evidence,also D- who keep bringing mediocre evidence must face no 2 unless justified
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Remember how much noise there was in the media after the you should know people issue? But it is only when Kang'ata initiated the LEGAL process, that she felt the heat until she finally resigned.

You should start from the ground up. If you want to ensure convictions, start by rigorously training the cops, then somehow ensure that they and the prosecutors are incorruptible [heheheh!] then you can put the judicial officers to task, ukipanda mpaka kwa thief justice. Vingine, you will fight very many wars with those wasomi.
 
Cheza juu

Cheza juu

Village Elder
#14
#14
dingoo_wa_ingoo said:
Remember how much noise there was in the media after the you should know people issue? But it is only when Kang'ata initiated the LEGAL process, that she felt the heat until she finally resigned.

You should start from the ground up. If you want to ensure convictions, start by rigorously training the cops, then somehow ensure that they and the prosecutors are incorruptible [heheheh!] then you can put the judicial officers to task, ukipanda mpaka kwa thief justice. Vingine, you will fight very many wars with those wasomi.
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Instead of rigorous training of D-,it's time Kenya police recruit two people,D- as the muscles and cadets as the brains.DCI should all be diploma and above plus demonstrated passion/talents
 
mbwakali

mbwakali

Village Elder
#15
#15
You have the answer in your post . Our education system is/has been the perfect habitat for production of the corrupt Kenyan . From the competitive "exams" kila mtu anataka A by hook and crook (hell, some of you parents even fork bribes for your kids to go to certain schools) ..fast forward kungurus( daughters and sisters-they ain't from Mars ) are sleeping with lecturers just for grades ...
This chasing for likes , grades ,being the best ,the first one etc ndio imetufikisha hapa . Ati lazima you must compare yourself with another person then you want more what they have based on such comparisons(coupled with theft ,greed and envy) - our education system didn't teach us to excel at our personal best . It taught us how to compare ourselves with each other and copy paste.
 
C

careerchoice

Village Elder
#17
#17
langatkipro said:
We all agree that Kenya is corrupt to the core. People are looting in all government offices and parastatals, from the executive to county governments and Judiciary.
Some people blame some of us for supporting Ruto saying we are the one contributing to the continuity of corruption.
Lets be honest about it.. Do you really believe that if we elect even the angels being mentioned like Kivutha Kibwana Ekuru Aukot or some compromise candidates such as Musalia who we all know the makaburi and Goldberg scandal things will change in Kenya.
Personally i believe that regardless of who wins the presidency in the next elections corruption will still be very prevalent in Kenya because our corruption does not only revolve around top leaders..its systemic and more of cultural. Even in job places people are looting. From schools principals loot money meant for free education and award themselves tenders, from hospitals the same even private sector.
Fighting corruption will require i must confess a ruthless dictator kind of president like Kagame who will use even unconstitutional means to deal with this menace. I must submit that even electing the so called angels won't change anything. Kibaki was not that corrupt more like Kivutha but we all saw what happened from Anglo Leasing, free education scandal Maize scandal Kazi kwa Vijana scandal and others. What does that tell you about Kenyans in general? Corruption in Kenya is more like now cultural problem and it will require a lot lot of effort and ruthlessness to deal with it..
A good case study is Kiambu County people thought that Kabogo Waititu were the reasons for corruption in Kiambu. It is true they were corrupt but that's not all the truth because why is it that now Waititu and Kabogo are out of office we have another scandal up now even worse than before..Corruption in Kenya is systemic and cultural issue right now and no matter who occupies power corruption is gonna thrive anyway because right from the watchmen clerks managers all the way to presidency all are corrupt. Fighting corruption in Kenya is either citizens wachoke kuchoka with corruption and they revolt and overthrow govt or along the way a ruthless dictator with intention to change things who has seen the cost of corruption rises to power. Without that i can assure you.. Lets get used to corruption and looting for the near future in Kenya.

What we are trying to do in Kenya is trying to treat the symptoms instead of treating the sickness. We are misdiagnosing the problem. Ruto Raila Uhuru Mudavadi Waititu Sonko corruption and others are jusr symptoms of the endemic systemic deeply rooted corruption problem in Kenya where even if we got rid of Ruto Raila Uhuru Mudavadi Kalonzo and others you can rest assured the next leader who will take over them will be corrupt to the core like them. Our corruption problem now has become cultural and systemic issue and would need a deep radical surgery of the society to address it from educational and foundation stages to work ethics..
Click to expand...
Kibaki was corrupt but at least he was semi competent. During the making of the new constitution, he should have prioritised the creation of strong institutions which can’t be corrupted by leaders that was part of his mistake. Uhuru and Ruto are corrupt and incompetent which is a cardinal sin.
Change has to be from top to bottom but watu bado hawajachoka. At least the people at the bottom are corrupt because theyre trying to survive. Those at the top je ?
 
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