When it Comes to Household Income, Sweden and Germany Rank with Kentucky

hackney

Village Elder
#41
The average american thinks they are a millionaire-in-waiting (99% percent are not and will never be) that's why they strongly oppose social welfare programs. The future-millionaire delusions are all nice until airheads like @Purple lose their adult-diaper-changing jobs and somehow fall sick!

American healthcare is the most expensive and exploitative in the world; if you fall sick and you don't have insurance, you are FUCKED! Even simple procedures cost a fortune; a hospital visit can wipe away your savings and throw you into neck-deep debt -- the kind of debt that will take you years to pay. While most of the programs being touted by leftists like Bernie Sanders are impractical at best, and nutty at worst, an effective social welfare programs is a necessity for any sensible society.

Anyone debating about socialism vs capitalism in 2019 is an absolute moron! Pension, 401k or whatever you call it, is a socialist idea, but societies that care about people's well-being can't do without it. Social welfare programs are there cover the 'holes' left by capitalism. When businesses fire thousands of factory workers and move their manufacturing to Asia in order to remain competitive and profitable, that's 'capitalism'. When the state sets up programs to sustain and reintegrate the jobless factory workers into other industries, that's 'socialism'. The two work in tandem.
This topic has reminded me of a discussion I saw a few days ago on a certain reddit forum made up of retail stock traders. The said forum is made up of mostly Americans,majority engaging in risky retail stocks and options trading. The said convesation took place after the Saudi oil incident a few days ago.

The point here is that Americans always think that the country called United States is the best thing that has ever happened on this earth,this is until they visit and experience a better functioning society than their beloved America.
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Sambamba

Village Sponsor
#42
This topic has reminded me of a discussion I saw a few days ago on a certain reddit forum made up of retail stock traders. The said forum is made up of mostly Americans,majority engaging in risky retail stocks and options trading. The said convesation took place after the Saudi oil incident a few days ago.

The point here is that Americans always think that the country called United States is the best thing that has ever happened on this earth,this is until they visit and experience a better functioning society than their beloved America.
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Saw that on Wallstreetbets and I couldnt help but laugh .Americans are so deluded
 
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Mrs Shosho

Guest
#44
No not that. There’s nothing like free healthcare. Someone has to pay for it. And they pay for it through taxation. So you can’t trll me you have free healthcare when you donate 40% of your wages to the government. Or pay double price at the gas pump-(UK) due to taxation. UK and Germany average gas price $ 5.25/ gallon today. US its $2.50/ gallon.
You missed my point by a million miles but I expected that.
 
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Mrs Shosho

Guest
#45
Sorry but NHS is a joke. We have many ex-Britain doctors here who have narrated to me the horrors of that system. I’ve never heard of an American doctor leaving the USA to work in the UK.

Wasnt Boris Johnson just booed recently when he visited Whipps cross country hospital?

Mr Salem, a Labour activist, said: “There are not enough people on this ward, there are not enough doctors, there’s not enough nurses, it’s not well organized enough.” Gravely ill kids not being attended to for hours!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-whipps-cross-university-london-a9110161.html
I am not here to speak on staff or political issues. Our citizens, especially the poor are largely v happy with the services. Silipi hosi, silipi consultations and tests/xrays, silipi ambulance service...I mean c'mmon now. The working lot pay a lot of taxes but we do not complain. I could go on and on but wacha niseme tu the Brits complaining have prolly never left Heathrow. If they did watakimya kii in terms of their health system.
 

Simiyu22

Village Sponsor
#46
This topic has reminded me of a discussion I saw a few days ago on a certain reddit forum made up of retail stock traders. The said forum is made up of mostly Americans,majority engaging in risky retail stocks and options trading. The said convesation took place after the Saudi oil incident a few days ago.

The point here is that Americans always think that the country called United States is the best thing that has ever happened on this earth,this is until they visit and experience a better functioning society than their beloved America.
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Oil is a non-renewable resource. Wait until those Norweigians oil runs out and you will see what will happen to them. Those social programs are unsustainable without oil.
 

obienga

Village Elder
#48
Shocking to say the least. These figures dispel a lot of leftist myths!

Were Norway a US state, it would rank between Delaware and California, which are among the US's more urbanized and wealthy states. Sweden and Germany, on the other hand, place closely to Kentucky, which is sixth from the bottom for US states in terms of median income.

Article:

It has nearly reached the point of dogma with many leftists that European countries enjoy higher standards of living thanks to more government regulation and more social benefits. What the data really suggests, however, is that even after social benefits are incorporated into the income data, the median American still has a higher income than most European countries.

Since I published that analysis last October, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) based in Paris has updated the numbers. Here is the ranking straight fom the latest "Society at a Glance" report from the OECD:


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The comparisons were based on a measure of income known as "annual median equivalized disposable household income." The measure attempts to take into account the realities of taxes and social benefits, and thus provide a more practical estimate for differences in household income among countries. The data is also adjusted for purchasing power parity, which means it's taking differences in purchasing power in different countries into account. Moreover, median income is more helpful when there may be large income inequalities at work. Use of a median measure instead of an average reduces the effect of a small number of extremely rich people skewing up the numbers.

In the updated measure, we can see that the United States is in fourth place behind Luxembourg, Norway, and Switzerland. The US comes in at $29,100, while Luxembourg's median income level is at 36,400.

The US's median income is 79% the size of Luxembourg's while Sweden's median income (to name one often-touted example) is 83% the size of the US's.

These comparisons are only at the national level, of course, and one of the largest problems with comparing the US to other countries, is that the US is much larger than every European country. This is true even of Russia, which has less than half as many people as the US.

Many countries — especially the smaller ones, including all the Scandinavian countries — are composed of only a handful of metropolitan areas, often with fewer than ten million people. The US, by contrast is very large, and very diverse in terms of geography and demographics. The US has more than 320 million people. Consequently, any statistic for the "United States" ends up burying within it the often-sizable differences from state to state and from metro area to metro area.

To incorporate individual sttes into the analyis, I have looked at how the Census Bureau's median income for each state stacks up against the US median income overall. I've then adjusted the OECD measure to be proportional to that.1

While it is a rather crude means of adjusting the data, can see that the result is plausible. A wide variety of other measures of state-level wealth routinely put Massachusetts — for example — above national levels, while measures of Arkansas put it below national levels.

The next step, then, is to compare these values to the OECD's values for each country. Obviously, any country with a disposable income measure above that of the US overall will find itself with an income level above most US states. At the same time, a country with a disposable income measure below that of the US overall is likely to find itself ranked below many US states.

When we graph them all together we find:

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https://mises.org/wire/when-it-comes-household-income-sweden-and-germany-rank-kentucky
40% of Americans don’t have $400 in the bank for emergency expenses: Federal Reserve https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americ...0-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846

Take out the top 1% in the USA and those averages fall dramatically.
 

obienga

Village Elder
#50
Oil is a non-renewable resource. Wait until those Norweigians oil runs out and you will see what will happen to them. Those social programs are unsustainable without oil.
Their sovereign wealth fund is one of the richest in the world. They have investments all over the world.


It had gained over $100bn in the past year, thanks in large measure to the global stockmarket boom in 2017: around two-thirds of its assets are held as equities (over 1% of shares globally). It helps that Norwegians continue to earn fat revenues from pumping North Sea oil and gas, which go to the fund to be invested abroad. The fund is so big it is becoming a tool for 5m-odd Norwegians to shape values abroad. https://www.economist.com/finance-a...ys-sovereign-wealth-fund-passes-the-1trn-mark
 

obienga

Village Elder
#51
If you reread the story, you will see the top 1% were not included.
It helps prove the point that Americans are worse off than @Purple claims, gross inequalities with some of their citizens fleeing to Mexico for retirement since they cannot afford to live anymore in their country. Assuming it is true as stated, the quality of living is better in several other countries before the US shows up in the list.

Ultimately, the researchers landed on a plausible explanation for both the discrepancy and why so many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck — debt. Many of the people who have $400 or more available to them likely have already earmarked that money for another obligation (and so, in other words, the cash isn’t really available to them). https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/20/her...ans-cant-handle-a-400-unexpected-expense.html
 
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Mrs Shosho

Guest
#52
I got the point. But I was addressing the root cause.
Nope you clearly did not. Reading political stuff online and using it as stats does not wash. We do not mind paying the high taxes. The system works v well. Siwezi kufia kwa nyumba because I do not have health insurance??that is an unknown here and no one can speak for the whole of Europe....28 countries....I know how your health system works and it cannot beat what is offered in many European countries.
 

hackney

Village Elder
#54
Oil is a non-renewable resource. Wait until those Norweigians oil runs out and you will see what will happen to them. Those social programs are unsustainable without oil.
Ever heard about Norway and their sovereign wealth fund? Dont be ignorant,spare sometime go read and educate yourself about what Norway has done with their oil resources. This not just another dumb and corrupt oil rich country like Nigeria. Norway is a country of progressive and visionary people.They have planned long term for their oil wealth. They knew the fact that their oil resource would end one day and they have planned well ahead for it.

A country of just 5 million people now has a sovereign wealth fund worth over 1 trillion dollars,the largest of its kind in the world. All invested from their oil income. The interest income alone from this Investment fund will benefit people born there for hundreds and even thousands of years to come.
 
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Simiyu22

Village Sponsor
#57
Nope you clearly did not. Reading political stuff online and using it as stats does not wash. We do not mind paying the high taxes. The system works v well. Siwezi kufia kwa nyumba because I do not have health insurance??that is an unknown here and no one can speak for the whole of Europe....28 countries....I know how your health system works and it cannot beat what is offered in many European countries.
Yes but I only have made one argument.That there is nothing like free healthcare anywhere. You are forgetting to cost the healthcare itself. Needles, syringes, medication, hospital fees, doctor fees cost something. In your case your government pays the costs. And collects it by taxing you-its citizens. In the US, technically the citizens pay the fees. But they have the benefit of being taxed half your rate.
But since you are drawing me into comparing which system is better, I can only give you a biased opinion. But lets start from one thing since you say that you know the US system: Have you ever heard of a federal law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)? It requires almost all hospitals to provide treatment to all patients who need emergency medical treatment regardless of whether the patients have health insurance. So how will you die in the house when this law covers you?
 
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Mrs Shosho

Guest
#59
Yes but I only have made one argument.That there is nothing like free healthcare anywhere. You are forgetting to cost the healthcare itself. Needles, syringes, medication, hospital fees, doctor fees cost something. In your case your government pays the costs. And collects it by taxing you-its citizens. In the US, technically the citizens pay the fees. But they have the benefit of being taxed half your rate.
But since you are drawing me into comparing which system is better, I can only give you a biased opinion. But lets start from one thing since you say that you know the US system: Have you ever heard of a federal law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)? It requires almost all hospitals to provide treatment to all patients who need emergency medical treatment regardless of whether the patients have health insurance. So how will you die in the house when this law covers you?
We do not need health insurance to access treatment here! all you need these days is prove you are here legally in some way because they closed a loop hole that was manipulated by health tourists mainly foreigners. Those that have taken health insurance policies are the v well heeled who feel the NHS is not good enough and can afford cover. Read celebrities like David Beckham and other quiet millionaires.
That said we will not get anywhere on this issue...I live here and reap the benefits bila wasi wasi. Have not worked for almost a year and a half now and that is even when I am now enjoying the full free treatment like dental work and free prescriptions which are not covered when employed. And then charges are capped and uniform all over the land if that makes sense. I don't have a problem of paying taxes into a system that works and can support me when circumstances change.
Just read the indepth posts by Obienga and Hackney sloooowly You might get an overview into how cushy it is if you understand how different European countries work.

Online Stats and politics are different from reality on the ground.
Look I want to try and enjoy my Friday evening...so Taraaaaaa as they say down in Seuth Africa.
 

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