Why isn't Nairobi Investing in a Metro system?

#24
Its no wonder these guys consider themselves not Africans. This place definitely looks like some cities in Europe. But if Kenya would try this, I think it would have to be in Isiolo/Machakos...basically in a new underdeveloped city. Can you imagine the chaos of doing this in Nairobi? Whether it be land costs or even space?
There shores are closer to Europe so they get a lot of knowledge... The government has enough road reserves all they have to do is grab them back...
 

Dan Otty

Village Elder
#25
Who do you thikn owns our beloved long distance trucks, buses and matatus??? If you can figure out the answer, then you have the reason why such things like subways and city trains and trams cant see the light of day in Kenya!!

And by the way, your beloved Kenyan leaders are not ignorant, they have travelled the world and seen all these things, it is just that they are not in THEIR interest to implement.....
 
#27
1 Good suggestion but you will be asked "utataka matatu industry iende wapi?
2 where is planning in Nairobi. It's crowded mpaka watu wamekula road reserve wapi space ya tram/ subway
3 kama BRT is over politicized sembuse hii?
1.) The death of the matatu is inevitable an. Just like how we don't see horses and carriages anymore.

2.) Nairobi isn't overcrowded what Nairobi suffers from is poor planning. Space is there all the government needs to do a forceful return of its land.

3.) BRT is politicized because it's about eating tenders. No one is complaining of the bad upgrading of the commuter rail system that is ongoing yet it has the potential to move a lot of people.
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#28
They're only two cities in Africa with a metro system aka underground trains. And that is Cario, Egypt, and Algiers, Algeria. No any other city in Africa has such systems.

The cost of constructing the 22km Algiers Metro cost about 900million euros or about 1 billion dollars or in local currency 100Bn Kenya shillings. If President Uhuru wants something like done in Nairobi he should go and visit and benchmark from Algeria. (someone send him this link) Look at the pictures below and don't tell me that doesn't look like Europe capital? But yet that is an African city committed to moving its people to the future. Guess what Algeria's population is only 41 million people... If Kenya wanted to do a similar project maybe we can use Algerian Construction firm Cosider group to come and do something similar in Nairobi.




























In the same note in 2011 Algeria constructed a tramway system in the city of Algiers for about $394 million dollars between a partnership of Alstom and Turkish engineering firm Yapi Merkezi who are building several rail projects in Africa for a very affordable price. The Algiers Tramway which is1 6.2 kilometers and constructed of superior quality than the Ethiopian system. Is the type of urban rail network we should be building on Thika Rd. While on Ngong Rd and Juja/Jogoo Rd should be entirely BRT based commuter system. And the Metro System should go underground between CBD-Uhuru Highway-Mombasa Rd-JKIA, And the Commuter Rail System should connect the counties with one another.





On subways, costs depends highly on the soil type below. Sandy, rocky, red of cotton soil. That is how one subway can be as cheap as $100 million a kilometer to $1 billion a kilometer. Until that underground geographical mapping happens in the Nairobi route picked then we will know the type of tunnel machines needed. Lastly subways are the last means of public transport after you have exhausted buses and commuter train services like light train and trams. What Ministry of Transport is trying to do now is to introduce a new commuter train service. However CS Macharoa and PS Hinga have picked on world bank proposal of the same which is very rudimentary, ineffective and dummy down type of commuter train service. It will use the existing decades old track only rehabilitated. Instead of giving one proven global operator to fund, operate and maintain the service. Instead of building BRT lanes which a inefficient service for our traffic needs, build a tramline like Ethiopia on those lanes. They can run on road shoulders or overhead where land acquisition is a problem. Problem with world bank projects is that they are designed to inhibit rapid modernization of infrastructure. If you look at their suggestion for SGR it would mean spending a $1.5 billion in revamping the lunatic express. However due to the narrow gauge, short tunnels and tight curves the speed would be capped at 60km and cargo capacity would be a small amount of 8 million tonnes annually. Way inadequate for it to warrant an upgrade.
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#29
Mimi, ningependa takataka ziokotwe kwanzia Kawangware,, CBD, Gikomba, Dandora, Githurai... everywhere , Jiji liwe safi kwanza! All potholes na pavements zirekebishwe asap! Hakuna haja ya new infrastructure wakati what we're already using ziko dilapidated.

Besides, all the plans, all the blueprints, and all manners of maendeleo promises nimewahi kusikia za kumordernise Nairobi zingekua implemented Nairobi ingekua a true Wakada!

Sample these...
View attachment 224539 View attachment 224540

What happened to them?
This project has been a pain for the last 10 years. It now year 11 since the first design were out. It construction was to begin the sane time with Thika road. It was even awarded to Stratsbag in 2009 to build with funding from world bank. However global politics took over. A Russian firm bought stratsbag parent company in Switzerland. World Bank stopped that funding saying the Russian firm owner is blacklisted. Meanwhile all contracts had been signed. We couldn't repeal it without a risk of litigation and big compensation claims from them. We tried 5 times to end the statement by arbitration up to 2015 when they finally surrendered the project. World bank now asked for a new feasibility study, design and bill of quantities. They did it and incredibly increased land compensation to Kshs 15 billion. That section of Name Gichuru road, Kingara up to Ngong road was to be dualled as well as a feeder road. The Kangemi market was to be rebuilt as a ma market worth 5 billion and many other claims in westlands. That placed the road financial package to be very expensive and Treasury couldn't authorize that loan package. Eventually even the President turned it down. It was redesigned two other times to a lower cost. However by grace the stàtue of limits with world bank on this project ended in Dec 2018. Treasury gave them a termination letter to put them.on notice that it will not be done by them. In Jan 2019, Ministry of Transport under instructions of the Presidency awarded this JKIA-ABC place overhead highway project to CCCC. The SGR Chinese builder. They will finance, build, operate and maintain this highway for 25 years by PPP. They will upgrade the below road which will be free. The overhead highway will be an express toll road including commuter train. Those who want to travel fast and express will pay something like Kshs 200 to cruise above.
 

Bigfish1

Village Elder
#32
Kenyans don't want any sort of order, walk around and see how people conduct businesses.
Someone just outs their wares and goods on the pedestrian walk way yet there's space away from the walking path.
There's a degree of stupidity, lack of order, can't even get the words to express what this behavior could be.
 

Meria Mata

Elder Statesman
#33
Kenyans don't want any sort of order, walk around and see how people conduct businesses.
Someone just outs their wares and goods on the pedestrian walk way yet there's space away from the walking path.
There's a degree of stupidity, lack of order, can't even get the words to express what this behavior could be.
sirkal ndio imetuangusha due to 25hr politicking, public order hakuna coz ya mtu/watu wetu syndrome. thats why ukipata mtu amekunya juu ya choo na wewe unakunya hapo kando juu hakuna mtu wa kukuuliza, in a month meffi imefika inje kwa corridor and life goes on as if everything is alright. kaa sirkal ingestop hii kunya juu ya choo ilipoanza the mess wouldnt be there.
welcome to kenya
 

Bwenyenye

Village Elder
#34
sirkal ndio imetuangusha due to 25hr politicking, public order hakuna coz ya mtu/watu wetu syndrome. thats why ukipata mtu amekunya juu ya choo na wewe unakunya hapo kando juu hakuna mtu wa kukuuliza, in a month meffi imefika inje kwa corridor and life goes on as if everything is alright. kaa sirkal ingestop hii kunya juu ya choo ilipoanza the mess wouldnt be there.
welcome to kenya
Hii ndio drumpf alimaanisha aliposema shithole ama?
 

Deez Nuts

Village Elder
#35
Nyinyi hamjui ......................for things to change in this country , what we need is a complete overhaul of leadership ..........This place needs new people to run the govt ...brand new !
.
1. They must have University Degrees.
2. They must not have criminal records esp corruption cases
3. They must have one spouse / wife each.
4. They must not be affiliated or connected in any way with current politicians .


I think any leader worth his name has to be a capable , respectable , some-how morally upright or dignified and should have a weakness or something to lose if he f*cks up (family) .
 

Purple

Moderator
Staff member
#37
1.) The death of the matatu is inevitable an. Just like how we don't see horses and carriages anymore.

2.) Nairobi isn't overcrowded what Nairobi suffers from is poor planning. Space is there all the government needs to do a forceful return of its land.

3.) BRT is politicized because it's about eating tenders. No one is complaining of the bad upgrading of the commuter rail system that is ongoing yet it has the potential to move a lot of people.
There are two ways in which modern cities are developing around the world. On one hand we have the well planned cities with a low population density of richer people, which has facilitated excellent urban planning and maintaining of public spaces.

The way that poor- middle income cities grow, for example in the Asian countries, is based heavily on entrepreneurship. It’s disorganized, rambunctious, busy, overcrowded, lawless. There will always be the beautiful uptown areas but downtown is where most people earn their daily bread.

Therefore, as much as matatus are a nuisance, you cannot get rid of them in the name of modernization when most people rely on these jobs to survive. People must eat, beauty wachia wazungu.

It’s premature to talk about subway systems when majority of people are hungry, poor, unemployed and have bleak future prospects. First things first.

I imagine Nairobi will grow into a mini Mumbai, not London.

 

Meria Mata

Elder Statesman
#39
Nyinyi hamjui ......................for things to change in this country , what we need is a complete overhaul of leadership ..........This place needs new people to run the govt ...brand new !
.
1. They must have University Degrees.
2. They must not have criminal records esp corruption cases
3. They must have one spouse / wife each.
4. They must not be affiliated or connected in any way with current politicians .


I think any leader worth his name has to be a capable , respectable , some-how morally upright or dignified and should have a weakness or something to lose if he f*cks up (family) .
hapo kwa number 3 ni nguma saidi, ngumu sana, infact its impossible
 
#40
On subways, costs depends highly on the soil type below. Sandy, rocky, red of cotton soil. That is how one subway can be as cheap as $100 million a kilometer to $1 billion a kilometer. Until that underground geographical mapping happens in the Nairobi route picked then we will know the type of tunnel machines needed. Lastly subways are the last means of public transport after you have exhausted buses and commuter train services like light train and trams. What Ministry of Transport is trying to do now is to introduce a new commuter train service. However CS Macharoa and PS Hinga have picked on world bank proposal of the same which is very rudimentary, ineffective and dummy down type of commuter train service. It will use the existing decades old track only rehabilitated. Instead of giving one proven global operator to fund, operate and maintain the service. Instead of building BRT lanes which a inefficient service for our traffic needs, build a tramline like Ethiopia on those lanes. They can run on road shoulders or overhead where land acquisition is a problem. Problem with world bank projects is that they are designed to inhibit rapid modernization of infrastructure. If you look at their suggestion for SGR it would mean spending a $1.5 billion in revamping the lunatic express. However due to the narrow gauge, short tunnels and tight curves the speed would be capped at 60km and cargo capacity would be a small amount of 8 million tonnes annually. Way inadequate for it to warrant an upgrade.
Nairobi soil tests have been done. And they yielded results that a Metro system is very much capable in Nairobi and I believe JICA did a report showing a ring system in the CBD is possible. I have tried looking for that report without much success... And its probably sitting in a shelf somewhere in the Ministry of Transport.

The plan showed that a ring system in the CBD linking Westlands, Upperhill, Nyayo Stadium, all the way to JKIA is very much possible and doable for exactly a billion dollars or even less using cut/cover system or better yet we use the exact method the Chinese used on the Ngong Tunnel which is called the New Austrian Tunneling Method which passes through 6 fault zones. A much more hectic engineering schedule than having to do something similar in Nairobi.

A metro system is not the last means of public transportation??? Its a system meant to facilitate easier access to the city. And a lot quicker than a bus or overhead tram lines. Nairobi is becoming urbanized at an explosive rate and we have lost a combined time of 20 years with useless government planning. A BRT Bus, Trams, Metro, Commuter Rail, Ropeways, etc. these are systems that give the public individual options to use they all complement each other. I live in a city with 5 modes of transportation and they're water taxi, metro, trams, commuter rail, buses, taxis, and Uber. All these modes of transport system work with one another in improving access and livability in a city. Which Nairobi is severely lacking...

I agree with you with the bad pace and horrible implementation of the commuter rail system.
 

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