Why isn't Nairobi Investing in a Metro system?

majizee

Village Elder
#43
On subways, costs depends highly on the soil type below. Sandy, rocky, red of cotton soil. That is how one subway can be as cheap as $100 million a kilometer to $1 billion a kilometer. Until that underground geographical mapping happens in the Nairobi route picked then we will know the type of tunnel machines needed. Lastly subways are the last means of public transport after you have exhausted buses and commuter train services like light train and trams. What Ministry of Transport is trying to do now is to introduce a new commuter train service. However CS Macharoa and PS Hinga have picked on world bank proposal of the same which is very rudimentary, ineffective and dummy down type of commuter train service. It will use the existing decades old track only rehabilitated. Instead of giving one proven global operator to fund, operate and maintain the service. Instead of building BRT lanes which a inefficient service for our traffic needs, build a tramline like Ethiopia on those lanes. They can run on road shoulders or overhead where land acquisition is a problem. Problem with world bank projects is that they are designed to inhibit rapid modernization of infrastructure. If you look at their suggestion for SGR it would mean spending a $1.5 billion in revamping the lunatic express. However due to the narrow gauge, short tunnels and tight curves the speed would be capped at 60km and cargo capacity would be a small amount of 8 million tonnes annually. Way inadequate for it to warrant an upgrade.
Pewa like. Kumbe kuna watu wanajua ukweli
 

Soprano

Village Elder
#46
@admin, if you find favour in what I beseech of you, won't you pin this thread, ili tuweze kudiscuss hii mada bila the constraints of time! Kwa kuwa the more threads are posted afterwards, the more this one descends into oblivion and obscurity. Kisha after several months unaskia you can't reply to this thread!
 
#47
There are two ways in which modern cities are developing around the world. On one hand we have the well planned cities with a low population density of richer people, which has facilitated excellent urban planning and maintaining of public spaces.

The way that poor- middle income cities grow, for example in the Asian countries, is based heavily on entrepreneurship. It’s disorganized, rambunctious, busy, overcrowded, lawless. There will always be the beautiful uptown areas but downtown is where most people earn their daily bread.

Therefore, as much as matatus are a nuisance, you cannot get rid of them in the name of modernization when most people rely on these jobs to survive. People must eat, beauty wachia wazungu.

It’s premature to talk about subway systems when majority of people are hungry, poor, unemployed and have bleak future prospects. First things first.

I imagine Nairobi will grow into a mini Mumbai, not London.

How's it premature? The first London underground was built when people were still using horses and carriages. And a majority of people were dirt poor. It's opening completely revolutionized transport in the 20th century that cities like New York, Chicago, Boston, Paris etc. started building similar systems which literally opened up these cities. In New York city when the subway was first opened people believed it would be only for the rich since a majority of the city streets were not paved and filled with horse shit. But public interest forced them to change their minds and make the system open to all citizens which literally changed the city...

No one in Nairobi wants to change the status quo. They want chaos to continue when the world is fast moving forward.


By the way, Mumbai is also building a metro system. They're trying to correct the mistakes made in the past by opening up the city for further development.
 

Deez Nuts

Village Elder
#48
hapo kwa number 3 ni nguma saidi, ngumu sana, infact its impossible
Ask yourself why huko majuu , if a prominent person cheats on his wife ......ana step down bila kuambiwa ?
WHY ? I think it's coz , if a man can't keep a promise and be loyal to his wife & family who he knows , how will he be loyal & keep his promises to country's people he doesn't even know ? see the logic there...... ?
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#49
Nairobi soil tests have been done. And they yielded results that a Metro system is very much capable in Nairobi and I believe JICA did a report showing a ring system in the CBD is possible. I have tried looking for that report without much success... And its probably sitting in a shelf somewhere in the Ministry of Transport.

The plan showed that a ring system in the CBD linking Westlands, Upperhill, Nyayo Stadium, all the way to JKIA is very much possible and doable for exactly a billion dollars or even less using cut/cover system or better yet we use the exact method the Chinese used on the Ngong Tunnel which is called the New Austrian Tunneling Method which passes through 6 fault zones. A much more hectic engineering schedule than having to do something similar in Nairobi.

A metro system is not the last means of public transportation??? Its a system meant to facilitate easier access to the city. And a lot quicker than a bus or overhead tram lines. Nairobi is becoming urbanized at an explosive rate and we have lost a combined time of 20 years with useless government planning. A BRT Bus, Trams, Metro, Commuter Rail, Ropeways, etc. these are systems that give the public individual options to use they all complement each other. I live in a city with 5 modes of transportation and they're water taxi, metro, trams, commuter rail, buses, taxis, and Uber. All these modes of transport system work with one another in improving access and livability in a city. Which Nairobi is severely lacking...

I agree with you with the bad pace and horrible implementation of the commuter rail system.
Yes, that JICA report is what we are both referring on. That's was its conclusion. Metro plans for Nairobi were last on the schedule. Build was to start in 2030 after we have completed commuter rail service built for the city and neighbouring counties.

Thanks for the soil sample report, that last bit was what I didn't have. From that write up we can conclude the soil is severe for tunneling. It will need a boring machine. Its clay soil. That build price has just gone up considerably. Cut and cover in CBD is out of question. Where will they dig up? Streets or pavements and its not a few meters but +10 meters. Austrian tunnel method works for rocky gravel not clay since its dug using controlled explosions.

My opinion remains the same, use the reserved road provisions for a street/roadside commuter train service and it will take away all road traffic away from personal cars who are the biggest cause of traffic jams in the city.

This can be perfect for Ngong road, Outer ring and Uhuru highway
images (1).jpg images (5).jpg

This can be perfect for built up highways where there is no more land for expansion and it means you don't have to take away any road lane for another ridiculous service called BRT that doesn't work to end jams. Just build it above the walking lane.
images (3).jpg
Lastly instead of $ billions on CBD subway now, let's try this elevated monorail that's easy to build, maintain and remain very efficient. The pillars only take up less than 1/2 acre for the whole of CBD/Town.
images (4).jpg
images (2).jpg
Lastly for those living in Ngong, Rongai, Kajiado, Wote, Konza, Machakos, Muranga, Kiambu and Kikuyu. Then this high capacity light train will move you to and from in under 30 mins.
unnamed.jpg
All this various train types (Light train-Mono rail-Tram) are all commuter rail service that will move 60% of mass passenger transport in any modern city. Non has failed globally. They move millions a day and any investor can invest and get ROI in a decade.
 

AFI

Village Elder
#50
sirkal ndio imetuangusha due to 25hr politicking, public order hakuna coz ya mtu/watu wetu syndrome. thats why ukipata mtu amekunya juu ya choo na wewe unakunya hapo kando juu hakuna mtu wa kukuuliza, in a month meffi imefika inje kwa corridor and life goes on as if everything is alright. kaa sirkal ingestop hii kunya juu ya choo ilipoanza the mess wouldnt be there.
welcome to kenya
Are u aware come 2022 you will be singing a different tune?
 

AFI

Village Elder
#52
Yes, that JICA report is what we are both referring on. That's was its conclusion. Metro plans for Nairobi were last on the schedule. Build was to start in 2030 after we have completed commuter rail service built for the city and neighbouring counties.

Thanks for the soil sample report, that last bit was what I didn't have. From that write up we can conclude the soil is severe for tunneling. It will need a boring machine. Its clay soil. That build price has just gone up considerably. Cut and cover in CBD is out of question. Where will they dig up? Streets or pavements and its not a few meters but +10 meters. Austrian tunnel method works for rocky gravel not clay since its dug using controlled explosions.

My opinion remains the same, use the reserved road provisions for a street/roadside commuter train service and it will take away all road traffic away from personal cars who are the biggest cause of traffic jams in the city.

This can be perfect for Ngong road, Outer ring and Uhuru highway
View attachment 224574 View attachment 224575

This can be perfect for built up highways where there is no more land for expansion and it means you don't have to take away any road lane for another ridiculous service called BRT that doesn't work to end jams. Just build it above the walking lane.
View attachment 224576
Lastly instead of $ billions on CBD subway now, let's try this elevated monorail that's easy to build, maintain and remain very efficient. The pillars only take up less than 1/2 acre for the whole of CBD/Town.
View attachment 224578
View attachment 224579
Lastly for those living in Ngong, Rongai, Kajiado, Wote, Konza, Machakos, Muranga, Kiambu and Kikuyu. Then this high capacity light train will move you to and from in under 30 mins.
View attachment 224580
All this various train types (Light train-Mono rail-Tram) are all commuter rail service that will move 60% of mass passenger transport in any modern city. Non has failed globally. They move millions a day and any investor can invest and get ROI in a decade.
To be honest unabore na hizi paragraph zako refu...na si kwa ubaya. It is much better to see than to give false hopes about the infrastructure development.
 
#56
I agree on 1 and 3.

Space ya subway? So which Kenyan owns the land say 50 metres below ground. Show me one nimpatie Kuona Mbele award...
They needed space for Thika Road,you know what happened. All we need is to give the job to the peoples president.
Its no coincidence that even AU recognized the genius and gave him a job to do with infrastructure...
:D:D:D:D
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#57
Ethiopian Light Rail

This should be the base study for any commuter train service in Africa. However you should see what Ministry of Transport is implementing here. Sometimes I wonder if world bank is holding brief for that colonial relic called lunatic express at the behest of the Brits.

The good.

Its transports 200000 people daily in Addis on one corridor.
Comfortable and efficient mass transport service.
Modern design for an ambitious city.

The bad.
They bought few locomotives and passenger carriages. Its not enough for the demand.
They are overloaded and that means the service limits are reduced to less than a year.
The overload has led to many breakdowns and its shipped back to China for repairs then sent back.
Their is only one 21 Km corridor, its not a city wide service.

Lesson to be learned.

Buy enough locomotives and carriages. Traffic studies should be accurate.
Build a city wide loop not one line only.
Make sure the maintenance yards are built locally so that they can be repaired here.
 
#58
Yes, that JICA report is what we are both referring on. That's was its conclusion. Metro plans for Nairobi were last on the schedule. Build was to start in 2030 after we have completed commuter rail service built for the city and neighbouring counties.

Thanks for the soil sample report, that last bit was what I didn't have. From that write up we can conclude the soil is severe for tunneling. It will need a boring machine. Its clay soil. That build price has just gone up considerably. Cut and cover in CBD is out of question. Where will they dig up? Streets or pavements and its not a few meters but +10 meters. Austrian tunnel method works for rocky gravel not clay since its dug using controlled explosions.

My opinion remains the same, use the reserved road provisions for a street/roadside commuter train service and it will take away all road traffic away from personal cars who are the biggest cause of traffic jams in the city.

This can be perfect for Ngong road, Outer ring and Uhuru highway
View attachment 224574 View attachment 224575

This can be perfect for built up highways where there is no more land for expansion and it means you don't have to take away any road lane for another ridiculous service called BRT that doesn't work to end jams. Just build it above the walking lane.
View attachment 224576
Lastly instead of $ billions on CBD subway now, let's try this elevated monorail that's easy to build, maintain and remain very efficient. The pillars only take up less than 1/2 acre for the whole of CBD/Town.
View attachment 224578
View attachment 224579
Lastly for those living in Ngong, Rongai, Kajiado, Wote, Konza, Machakos, Muranga, Kiambu and Kikuyu. Then this high capacity light train will move you to and from in under 30 mins.
View attachment 224580
All this various train types (Light train-Mono rail-Tram) are all commuter rail service that will move 60% of mass passenger transport in any modern city. Non has failed globally. They move millions a day and any investor can invest and get ROI in a decade.
The way the commuter rail system is being upgraded it's like an afterthought. By 2030 it will still be a relic.

The soil sample tests show that Nairobi has a degree of different soil types. The black clay is not suitable. But the red clay and grey clay areas are indeed okay. I saw a documentary a while ago of the building of the Bangkok metro system and that project had to deal with lots of swampy soil. Nairobi isn't that far off as long as the alignment will follow the bedrock i don't see any major challenges in Nairobi that haven't been addressed in other areas of the world. By the way, NATM can be used in also clay conditions.....
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#59
The JICA plan is available here:

http://open_jicareport.jica.go.jp/pdf/12307658_01.pdf

It is gathering dust somewhere in the Ministry of Transport. And imagine it cost 200m to produce.
This report is being ignored like the plague by Ministry of Transport officials. To be fair there are other 60 reports, proposals and studies but non is exhaustive, well researched and broadly incorporates all city transport networks like this final JICA report. Instead a proposal by a EU NGO and world bank is what is being implemented. Even on that proposal a lot of short cuts and rushed decisions are being implemented first.
 

spear

Village Sponsor
#60
The way the commuter rail system is being upgraded it's like an afterthought. By 2030 it will still be a relic.

The soil sample tests show that Nairobi has a degree of different soil types. The black clay is not suitable. But the red clay and grey clay areas are indeed okay. I saw a documentary a while ago of the building of the Bangkok metro system and that project had to deal with lots of swampy soil. Nairobi isn't that far off as long as the alignment will follow the bedrock i don't see any major challenges in Nairobi that haven't been addressed in other areas of the world. By the way, NATM can be used in also clay conditions.....
You mentioned CBD subway well the soil sample is severe to extremely severe. That only means a boring machine. That's $1 billion a kilometer of subway. Subways will eventually be part of Nairobi city transport system. However that is not now or in the next decade. Let's do commuter train first.
 
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