Why MGTOW is a Poor Strategy

#1
I have been a long-time lurker here and I feel like I have something to contribute. Beyond the Alpha-Beta foolishness surrounding MGTOW (how do you pronounce MGTOW that by the way?) it has some very valid points. Things like focusing on self improvement, not pedestalizing women; all these are great philosophies. Problem is that this philosophy is not sustainable long-term and might even be dangerous and here's why;

1) MGTOW is a game where the goal is not to lose. You can't play life on the defensive and expect win. If you are going to win at life, you have to be all in. As a man you need to learn how to take losses. That doesn't mean be reckless but as a man you take losses; you get cheated on, taken advantage of, lied to, and all other bullshit. You use these experiences to sharpen your vision to identify the threat; not to build a wall around yourself to keep everything, including the good, out.

2) The prize is mediocre at best. I know, I know, MGTOW is about self improvement blah blah but once you cut through the bullshit (again, there are some truths to this philosophy - even a broken clock is right twice a day) it really is about being attractive to women. I don't know of a man who would argue that having your choice of women is a bad thing but all things considered it is not a prize worth having. This world is filled with suffering, troubles at every turn, death, vulnerability, and all kinds of terrible things but you want to tell me that the prize in overcoming all of that is to be attractive to women? MGTOW is a hedonistic philosophy and the idea that the reason you should suffer through life to improve yourself is so that you can enjoy higher quality pleasures is shortsighted in the way only a hedonist can be.

3) This last one is more of a personal opinion. I believe in a metaphysical reality. I believe in forces that govern our 'being', which much like gravity, we cannot see, feel, hear, or prove but can only experience. You may think that as human beings we have mastered flight and therefore defeated nature but in truth even an airplane has to adhere to some fundamental rules that govern the universe. In the same way a man cannot live and thrive alone. Some esoteric Christian sects believe that Adam and Eve was actually one hermaphroditic being and the fall brought the separation between man and woman. A lot of Eastern gods are hermaphroditic, both male and female. Think yin and yang. The real reason for marriage or companionship between the sexes is to combine the archetypal male and the archetypal female to become perfect - the highest of all human striving. This is why marriage is held sacred in every religion. This is an entire topic on its own so I'll leave it there.

Nii hayo tuu kwa sasa wakubwa I don't want to overstay my welcome.
 
#2
I have been a long-time lurker here and I feel like I have something to contribute. Beyond the Alpha-Beta foolishness surrounding MGTOW (how do you pronounce MGTOW that by the way?) it has some very valid points. Things like focusing on self improvement, not pedestalizing women; all these are great philosophies. Problem is that this philosophy is not sustainable long-term and might even be dangerous and here's why;

1) MGTOW is a game where the goal is not to lose. You can't play life on the defensive and expect win. If you are going to win at life, you have to be all in. As a man you need to learn how to take losses. That doesn't mean be reckless but as a man you take losses; you get cheated on, taken advantage of, lied to, and all other bullshit. You use these experiences to sharpen your vision to identify the threat; not to build a wall around yourself to keep everything, including the good, out.
Your first premise is wrong... MGTOW is choosing not to play the game. MGTOWs understand the game and choose not to engage, let others play

Also, there's no winning in life, there's only death... I understand that wewe ni NV, but that has been established kitambo sana..

There are no medals awarded when one dies, everyone gets burried in a 6 by 6 hole with the wealthy among us are incinerated to ashes..

Live life how you want to.. Each man has the right to control how he lives, MGTOW acknowledges this while traditionalists like you think otherwise.
 

Ka-Buda

Village Elder
#3
I have been a long-time lurker here and I feel like I have something to contribute. Beyond the Alpha-Beta foolishness surrounding MGTOW (how do you pronounce MGTOW that by the way?) it has some very valid points. Things like focusing on self improvement, not pedestalizing women; all these are great philosophies. Problem is that this philosophy is not sustainable long-term and might even be dangerous and here's why;

1) MGTOW is a game where the goal is not to lose. You can't play life on the defensive and expect win. If you are going to win at life, you have to be all in. As a man you need to learn how to take losses. That doesn't mean be reckless but as a man you take losses; you get cheated on, taken advantage of, lied to, and all other bullshit. You use these experiences to sharpen your vision to identify the threat; not to build a wall around yourself to keep everything, including the good, out.

2) The prize is mediocre at best. I know, I know, MGTOW is about self improvement blah blah but once you cut through the bullshit (again, there are some truths to this philosophy - even a broken clock is right twice a day) it really is about being attractive to women. I don't know of a man who would argue that having your choice of women is a bad thing but all things considered it is not a prize worth having. This world is filled with suffering, troubles at every turn, death, vulnerability, and all kinds of terrible things but you want to tell me that the prize in overcoming all of that is to be attractive to women? MGTOW is a hedonistic philosophy and the idea that the reason you should suffer through life to improve yourself is so that you can enjoy higher quality pleasures is shortsighted in the way only a hedonist can be.

3) This last one is more of a personal opinion. I believe in a metaphysical reality. I believe in forces that govern our 'being', which much like gravity, we cannot see, feel, hear, or prove but can only experience. You may think that as human beings we have mastered flight and therefore defeated nature but in truth even an airplane has to adhere to some fundamental rules that govern the universe. In the same way a man cannot live and thrive alone. Some esoteric Christian sects believe that Adam and Eve was actually one hermaphroditic being and the fall brought the separation between man and woman. A lot of Eastern gods are hermaphroditic, both male and female. Think yin and yang. The real reason for marriage or companionship between the sexes is to combine the archetypal male and the archetypal female to become perfect - the highest of all human striving. This is why marriage is held sacred in every religion. This is an entire topic on its own so I'll leave it there.

Nii hayo tuu kwa sasa wakubwa I don't want to overstay my welcome.
New villager umekuja hapa leo na matuta na matambara but I agree with you.!

I have always thought it a bit cowardly for a young man to choose not to enjoy the pleasures that come from being in a relationship with a woman for fear of 'getting burnt'.
MGTOW as far as I can see should be a privilege reserved only for men who have cohabited and procreated with a female in a failed partnership.
Feminism is a bitch and the odds are set against the Male in these times we're living in, But;
To sire and raise offspring is the only duty we have as Living organisms and is probably the most rewarding experience a MGTOW denies themselves out of unwarranted fear.
 
#4
MGTOW is about men building their empire and not indulging with women.
By nature women are sex objects to men and men are success objects to women. The society will never give a f**k about a man fucks up compared to a woman when she fucks up. MGTOW men have realized this and are going their own way to build their empire because the society will never support them when they are bankrupt.

Men don't need women but women need men. Women evolved that way and that's why a woman without a husband in earlier life was nothing.

The more men are without women the more productive they are this is in regards to academia. Research shows that once academics marry, their rate of publishing dimishes compared to when still unmarried.
Nikola Tesla, Isaac Newton all were MGTOW.
 

Ka-Buda

Village Elder
#5
MGTOW is about men building their empire and not indulging with women.
By nature women are sex objects to men and men are success objects to women. The society will never give a f**k about a man fucks up compared to a woman when she fucks up. MGTOW men have realized this and are going their own way to build their empire because the society will never support them when they are bankrupt.

Men don't need women but women need men. Women evolved that way and that's why a woman without a husband in earlier life was nothing.

The more men are without women the more productive they are this is in regards to academia. Research shows that once academics marry, their rate of publishing dimishes compared to when still unmarried.
Nikola Tesla, Isaac Newton all were MGTOW.
What a load of crap!
Almost ALL successful men in any field in life are Married.
You are more likely to be financially stable if married.

And never mind the creature comforts and homely touch a woman brings into a house...
A bachelor might afford to live in Karen with servants looking after his house but they still live like a chokosh compared to someone sharing the same house with a good woman.
 
#6
Traditionalists and preaching about good women...:D:D:D:D.. Like clockwork.. You MGTOWs just need to find a good woman and settle down..:D:D:D..

A good woman will make your house a home.. Mara a good woman will make you financially stable.. Mara a good woman will make you successful...

You preach about good women as if they are the second coming of Christ.. Its as if they're the solution to all a man's problems.. Its as if they'll never change..

There are no good women, the same way there are no good men.. There are just women and men.. Stop selling this 'good woman' dream and its accompanying utopia..

A man should be self-sufficient first without the need for a woman.. MGTOW teaches them this.. A 'good' woman is not a magic pill.

Let your fellow men choose their individual paths, if they choose the MGTOW path support them the same way they support you in your marriage with 'good' women..
 

Karoga

Village Elder
#8
What a load of crap!
Almost ALL successful men in any field in life are Married.
You are more likely to be financially stable if married.

And never mind the creature comforts and homely touch a woman brings into a house...
A bachelor might afford to live in Karen with servants looking after his house but they still live like a chokosh compared to someone sharing the same house with a good woman.
Leonardo do caprio , Daniel moi , Chris Kirubi among others, women don't give a f**k how much or long you have hustled ,women only hang around the finish line and f**k the winner s
 
#9
I
Your first premise is wrong... MGTOW is choosing not to play the game. MGTOWs understand the game and choose not to engage, let others play

Also, there's no winning in life, there's only death... I understand that wewe ni NV, but that has been established kitambo sana..

There are no medals awarded when one dies, everyone gets burried in a 6 by 6 hole with the wealthy among us are incinerated to ashes..

Live life how you want to.. Each man has the right to control how he lives, MGTOW acknowledges this while traditionalists like you think otherwise.
I'll have to disagree that there is no winning in life. I think the fact that we exist, and that we are aware of our existence is no trivial thing. Each man has to account for his existence - to answer with his own life the age old question of 'what is the meaning of life.' Sure death ends it all but if you had your way would you truly want to live forever? I don't have the answers to existential questions but the closest I have seen is in the myth of Sisyphus who is condemned to roll a boulder up a hill only for it to roll back down just when he gets to the top. He has to start again from the bottom and repeat this pointless exercise for eternity. Our lives are much like Sisyphus but if you can imagine this poor bastard happy - then you have cracked the code. You have won at life.
 
#11
New villager umekuja hapa leo na matuta na matambara but I agree with you.!

I have always thought it a bit cowardly for a young man to choose not to enjoy the pleasures that come from being in a relationship with a woman for fear of 'getting burnt'.
MGTOW as far as I can see should be a privilege reserved only for men who have cohabited and procreated with a female in a failed partnership.
Feminism is a bitch and the odds are set against the Male in these times we're living in, But;
To sire and raise offspring is the only duty we have as Living organisms and is probably the most rewarding experience a MGTOW denies themselves out of unwarranted fear.
Matuta na matambara :D:D. For men who are going their own way I sure do see a lot of talk on here about Kungurus, Safisha mecho, and other such things.
 
#12
Traditionalists and preaching about good women...:D:D:D:D.. Like clockwork.. You MGTOWs just need to find a good woman and settle down..:D:D:D..

A good woman will make your house a home.. Mara a good woman will make you financially stable.. Mara a good woman will make you successful...

You preach about good women as if they are the second coming of Christ.. Its as if they're the solution to all a man's problems.. Its as if they'll never change..

There are no good women, the same way there are no good men.. There are just women and men.. Stop selling this 'good woman' dream and its accompanying utopia..

A man should be self-sufficient first without the need for a woman.. MGTOW teaches them this.. A 'good' woman is not a magic pill.

Let your fellow men choose their individual paths, if they choose the MGTOW path support them the same way they support you in your marriage with 'good' women..
You do make some valid points. A man should be self sufficient always. You bring in a woman into your universe, and not waiting for a woman to come save you. The problem with MIGTOW as far as I can tell is about bashing women. But you cannot paint all women with the same brush. Any successful man who says that women played no part in his success is either a fool or a liar. Women have always been instrumental in men's success starting from mothers, sisters, friends, and spouses. This good woman that you despise will civilise you in a way that only a woman can. Material wealth, although VERY important, is not a measure of true success by any stretch of the imagination.
 
#13
Nope! You cannot live your life the way you want to! You have for the most part live life the way Society expects you to.. For the other parts of life you have to live according to the laws of the land... There is no absolute freedom in this world.
f**k society and its expectations... Also, MGTOW is not in violation of the laws of the land.. We're law-abiding citizens who should be accorded with the same rights as everyone else..

There is no absolute freedom, hapo I agree.. As a lifestyle, MGTOW has its freedoms and its accompanying responsibilities.. I am willing to bear these responsibilities..

Similar to you, you have chosen [or will choose] the married lifestyle.. It will grant you certain freedoms and its accompanying responsibilities.. Are you willing to bear those responsibilities?
 
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#16
I


I'll have to disagree that there is no winning in life. I think the fact that we exist, and that we are aware of our existence is no trivial thing. Each man has to account for his existence - to answer with his own life the age old question of 'what is the meaning of life.' Sure death ends it all but if you had your way would you truly want to live forever? I don't have the answers to existential questions but the closest I have seen is in the myth of Sisyphus who is condemned to roll a boulder up a hill only for it to roll back down just when he gets to the top. He has to start again from the bottom and repeat this pointless exercise for eternity. Our lives are much like Sisyphus but if you can imagine this poor bastard happy - then you have cracked the code. You have won at life.
I know of Sisyphus.. But the interesting thing about his journey is that he's alone with no one to cheer him on.. It teaches you that you can thrive in solitude, that is MGTOW at its core..
 
#18
Hehehe why are neegas doubting and second-guessing themselves? Kama uliharakisha kuoa out of insecurity and the fear of dying alone, then 5 years down the line ukafunguka macho dont come crying here.

And MGTOWs are not INCELs, @Ka-Buda a bachelor living in Karen will never be at the same level as a married negro with 4 brats he can barely feed shacked up in Kayole. You can bet that such a moneyed bachelor has his pick of female company only that he chooses not to engage, society will then brand him as miserable or g**.

Look at all developed countries, one thing they have in common is that most men over there marry or have kids after clocking atleast 35 years. Come to Africa, a 27-year old already has 3 kids that he or the govt can barely support. Who is the fool now?

One thing that i keep reiterating that it is extremely easy for any man to mate and have kids. Very easy, even chokoras in the streets breed. But what about making sth out of your average life? Thats the real challenge men.

Its high time men took the game to the feminists doorstep, and that starts with MGTOW.
 
#19
Hehehe why are neegas doubting and second-guessing themselves? Kama uliharakisha kuoa out of insecurity and the fear of dying alone, then 5 years down the line ukafunguka macho dont come crying here.

And MGTOWs are not INCELs, @Ka-Buda a bachelor living in Karen will never be at the same level as a married negro with 4 brats he can barely feed shacked up in Kayole. You can bet that such a moneyed bachelor has his pick of female company only that he chooses not to engage, society will then brand him as miserable or g**.

Look at all developed countries, one thing they have in common is that most men over there marry or have kids after clocking atleast 35 years. Come to Africa, a 27-year old already has 3 kids that he or the govt can barely support. Who is the fool now?

One thing that i keep reiterating that it is extremely easy for any man to mate and have kids. Very easy, even chokoras in the streets breed. But what about making sth out of your average life? Thats the real challenge men.

Its high time men took the game to the feminists doorstep, and that starts with MGTOW.
First off I did not rush to do anything. I'm in a great relationship and I actually apply a lot of these tactics I have seen here eg she knows the door is always wide open any time she'd like to leave and I will be no worse for wear. Anything she finds snooping where she's not supposed to be is hers to deal with alone. My boundaries are very clear which ironically I learned from being with the wrong kinds of women. Beyond that I treat here with maximum respect and love and you'd easily confuse me for a 'beta male' if you weren't privy to insider information.

My point is...Can you guys honestly say that you are happy going at it alone? f**k all the bravado; have you never been alone in your house and wondered if it would be nice to have someone to share it with? Man this world is brutal the thought of choosing to face it alone is... I feel like there is a happy medium - MGTOW seems a bit extreme to me like burning your hand on a stove and vowing never to cook again.
 
#20
I know of Sisyphus.. But the interesting thing about his journey is that he's alone with no one to cheer him on.. It teaches you that you can thrive in solitude, that is MGTOW at its core..
Good point. I have never thought of it like that. Still, I feel like there is a happy medium. You don't swear off women because you got burned or someone you know is going through some shit. Why would you want to face the world alone if you have the choice not to. I get being self sufficient, and you can be in a relationship while still being self sufficient. Every human being needs help, companionship, love. I would argue that you cannot be an adult...a man even...until you have learned to live for others beyond yourself.
 

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