Its men’s ego rather than women. Herod wanted to prove his power even though it bothered him to kill a righteous man. As did Samson who thought that nothing would bring him down. He knew Delila was sent by Philistians to finish him. It was not Delilah it was his ego.
I know this is a slightly different argument, one about men’s ego vis a vis the involvement of women, but it’s related to the post. There are many men who have failed purely owing to their ego, with no women involved/mentioned, eg. Nebuchadnezzar, Saul (the king); the other Saul the persecutor en route to Damascus–who later became Paul the apostle; Absalom and the botched coup; the Pharaoh of Moses’ time, etc. But women also do have a way of fanning men’s ego, so that men forget that without God they’re nothing, just proud men. The ones where the desire to please women or to show off to them is the cause of failure are overwhelming: Adam being convinced to eat the fruit; David stealing Bathsheba (the devil must’ve whispered in his ear: David, you are a great man, this is yours, take her. Bibi ya askari kitu gani, kwani ata do? Take her!); Ahab allowing Jezebel to kill Naboth–she promised to give him Naboth’s vineyard, he tacitly assented. (I can imagine Jezebel playing with his beard and telling him sneering, Hm, c’mon now, who is Naboth? You are the king! Ok, promise me you’ll take that vineyard, because I will give it to you, uh? Have a sip of wine and relax now, will you? Then she tickles him and snuggles closer:D); Solomon and his high places for foreign princesses, plus taxing the people heavily to maintain them; Samson drawing Delilah’s attention to his hair; this mad Herod trying to please a sister in law turned “wife”, etc. Ironically, this is the herod known in history as Herod the Great, hehe. The greatest failures in men somehow have women involved. The outward beauty of women is the prize that can destroy a great man if he isn’t careful—and this takes us back to the beginning of your post: the pastor who was praying for (and later rejoicing at) the death of a man that stole his wife, though it was obvious she was no good for him anyway.
I don’t see it that way, in my understanding, it’s more about a man’s pride, to himself and to other men. In pursuit of dominance and power. Women are just pawns in the game. One day, a professor told me that men do everything to impress women and that if there were no women in the world, men’s drive and motivation to suceed would go down the drain. Well being that woman who loves a challenge, you can blame my dad for debating me over everything when I was a kid. I’d win the argument then he’d switch sides. So arguing with a professor is not a good idea bcz those people know it all. So I told him imagine a world where you are the only man, what would happen to your drive and motivation then? How can a man have drive and motivation if there’s no competition. Touche. The simplest arguments are the most compelling especially when dealing with a Professor. The first Professor I experienced would simplify very complex concepts.
Have you read the human animal? You can also look into men who live in places with fewer women like Alaska where there are 10 men on average for 1 woman and towns with oil rigs in the middle of nowhere. It brings out the best and also the worst in men.
Women are the universal scapegoat. It tends to happen to underclasses. Human society is hierarchical. It’s men then women. Whites then blacks. Like that. That’s why a politician or tycoon hardly ever goes to jail for embezzling huge sums of money but petty thieves get long sentences or are lynched to death.
Social standing is indirectly proportional to accountability. In society a predator has a higher social standing than a victim, the predator is more dominant and powerful than the victim and that’s why there’s alot of victim blaming. Why did you get robbed? Were you wearing flashy jewelry? Talking on your phone? Remember the pilot who was murdered after his car stalled at a round about? People asked what was he doing out at 3am?The poor man who had his whole life ahead of him and was killed in cold blood. Society interrogate the victim before they interrogate the predator or the victimizer. I am currently studying criminal psychology, serial killers who are said to have genius IQ know this, so they pick victims who society sees as victims already. Samuel Little killed over 90 women most all were sex workers addicted to drugs and alcohol. Green River and Golden State Killers also focused on the same group. Jeffrey Dahmer my personal favorite, spiked gey men’s drinks in bath houses and gey clubs and when he was caught noone went to the police, he was raping men in the army but he got a discharge for drinking. You can see how cases of rape and murders of men in the army go, nowhere! So I am saying all this to say that women are not as powerful as you and that’s why they are scapegoated.
Now let’s begin at Adam and Steve. So Adam got the rules about the tree directly from God, Eve was a secondary recipient. Like how Moses got the commandments then was to relay them to the Israelites. Now we don’t hear of Eve going to look for Adam so I assume that Adam was right next to her atleast within hearing of her pow wow with the Serpent. As I see it, the best placed person to answer Satan’s questions would have been Adam bcz he’s the one God directly to about the tree. So Eve did not convince him to eat against his will, he just happened to be given the fruit by Eve bcz she picked it first. It was a similar case like that of the Old prophet and the Young prophet who God directly told not to eat anything during his mission. Then on his way back an old prophet told him that God spoke to him to tell the young prophet to eat. The Bible has a lot of prefiguration, symbolism, archetypes and foreshadowing bearing in mind that God is omniscient, omnipresent and immutable , and this is a foreshadowing of the temptation Christ faced from the devil after He fasted for 40 days. Did God not say He would give His angels charge over You that you would not even stumble your foot on a stone, then throw Your self off this cliff. For the angels will bear You up in their arms. That’s about Adam who is next?
Let’s go to Samson and Delilah who is the most demonized woman perhaps more than Jezebel. So Samson being a Nazarite knew he was not supposed to cavort with women who were pagan, this was expected of all Israelites btw but Samson being a powerful man the most powerful at the time, behaved like many powerful men in history, he wanted to be all powerful and thus not subject to any rules. There were beautiful women among the Israelites but what fun would that be? It was a power trip to kill Philistines all day long then go screw one of their women. Btw Delilah wasn’t his first or second or third Philestianian woman, forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest. Now, Samson knew very well that Delilah was being used by the Philistinian authorities to bring him down. The about two or three times he lied to her, the Philistinians came in and tried what Samson told Delilah on him, so he knew she was setting but he thought that he was so powerful that not even if they cut off his hair would the Spirit of God that gave him power leave him bcz he had been breaking all the other rules and getting away with it so he just assumed that he was invincible. I have been studying men all my life and the more a powerful a man becomes the more he objectifies people, they become a means to an end, the means to more power and dominance, the means to power trips that stroke his ego. That is all women are to powerful men. Delilah and the 5 previous Phillistine women were just a means of letting his ego know that he was unstoppable and he could break all the rules and no consequences bcz Israel needed, I believe he was the only Nazarite at the time like who was God going to use to replace him? Let me break up this answer its becoming too long.
Let’s move on to David, the problem with most people’s interpretation of the Bible is that they don’t look at it in its entirety, they cherry pick a verse or a chapter and quote it out of context. Now David was a very passionate and emotional man perhaps this is why the Lord said of David, he is a man after my own heart. David was a musician and he would write psalms and he would play the harp until evil spirits would leave King Saul after the Spirit of the Lord left him. Saul is the first man in the Bible to have a soul tie with another man, Saul saw his weaknesses and already started by giving David his daughter to marry, he then tried to use his son Jonathan to manipulate David but Jonathan loved David. David would pray and fast for his enemies. Such emotional and spiritual men love women and the same way they obsess about God, about music, about war, they obsess about women and you can see the same character in his son who was obsessed about his step sister Tamar until he was sick after he got power he hated her and threw her out like a dog. Same to Solomon though Solomon also wanted to consolidate his power by marrying from all over the place it was strategic and I believe Solomon is the only or one of the few kings who had no wars with neighbors but you can see his passion in Song of songs. He was a passionate man like his father David. Do you know that when David died in his bed, the officials threw a young woman in his bed to see if he would get up? That was how much David loved women. If you look at the analogy Prophet Nathan gave to David, you see that God sees that the issue of Bathsheba is a power issue. He can have any woman he wants and he had I don’t know how many wives but if he wanted another man’s wife he would just take bcz he was powerful. It wasn’t the first time he took Nabals wife Athough he did not kill, it was symbolic.
As for Ahab he wanted power but he was not strong like his wife so he handed over to the wife to bring him what he wanted which was power. Have I left out anybody? To be continued.
I haven’t read The Human Animal. You advance quite compelling arguments, I just have issue with your asserting that women are always a diversion and scapegoats in men’s power games. In fact if you look critically at your examples, women are core players in that game, because on one hand they are the prize–though a fleeting one in most cases–then they are accomplices, either knowingly or unknowingly. But they aren’t always victims.
Eve (I don’t like the Steve narrative) was not a victim. God is aware of that, that’s why he apportioned punishment for her as well. The difference between men’s and women’s modus operandi is that women use guile to get what they want, while men tend to be more blunt, they use either material wealth, subtle coercion, blackmail, or outright force. All this is a quest for power. Eve was fooled by Satan that eating the fruit would make her and Adam “like God” (power).
Remember Jacob’s mother tricking her husband in his senile blindness, to get the blessing (God’s power) for her son?
In Delilah’s case, Samsom was the fool in
- Hooking up with the enemy
- Giving her a second chance when she had showed him clearly she meant to get him killed
- Drawing attention to his hair, the physical sign of God’s protection–he was the one who first mentioned it in lying to her
- Continuing to tempt her to get him caught
In all this, the man fell because of simple tearful words: "you don’t love me!" Why was it so important to be loved by the enemy? Because he had been manipulated with nice words, touch and great bed game (she was a pro, or she wouldn’t have been paid for this mission) to get him to cease seeing her as the enemy. She wanted financial muscle (power).
Ahab’s case is also about power, not just for himself but for Jezebel–in fact the Bible blamed Jezebel’s evil ways for his fall. Of course Jezebel sought more ecpnomic power by grabbing productive lands (the vineyard) and power over her husband for asserting she would give the orchard to him.
Enter David, the friend of God, and the man of great emotion. I hesitate on the women linked to this one because I don’t know much about them, but at least I know Bathsheba vouched for Solomon to succeed him. I also know Nabal’s wife–I forget her name, will check–came out to stop his attack with gifts and cooled him down. Later she married the same man that killed her husband (uncouth as he may have been. She wasn’t a victim, she used what she had). We may actually have a victim among David’s wives, Saul’s daughter Michal. She was force to marry him of course–Saul didn’t ask her opinion when she was given to David after he defeated Goliath. Perhaps this is why she didn’t make a happy or loving wife.
As for Solomon’s most colourful romance with a thousand women, it’s a story more of power than of romance. Think of of this way: since I assume he, the king, had to visit these 700 wives and 300 concubines in turn, each was powerful in her own circles. As a wife of the king she had to have a coterie of maids to attend to her, and a palace worthy of her status. There is no way he could have kept all these women in one place. So he had to tax the people heavily, that’s why they rebelled after his death, when his inexperienced son told them his little finger was thicker than his father’s loins and he would chastise them with scorpions. Hehe, Rehoboam had nerve–to insult elders!
Perfect summary of what those are
Actually, not so much ego, but the woman’s design.
The woman was made as a helper to the man, so by design she has access to reserves of a man’s inner workings.
Man tends the land, the woman tends the man.
The devil understood this… he didn’t deceive the man, he deceived the woman, who in turn convinced the man. The devil knew it was not easy for him to convince the woman, but it was easy for the woman to convince the man.
On Samson, Delilah is representative of a very cunning spirit. She is like Jezebel. She finds the anointing of God and defiles it. There’s a reason why even the philistines send in Delilah instead of her brother
Hard as it may be to believe. The design of creation is that it isn’t proper for man to be alone.
Think of it like this, the form of a woman is new to creation.
God is a man (in form), Angels are men, the devil is a man etc…
Adam is made in the image of God… that’s why he looks like other created beings. The form of a woman is only in woman, there are no female Angels, and even in the times of Christ he only had men Apostles. In heaven, it’s a feast of the Patriarchs. In fact, God made no covenant with women in the OT… no woman could slaughter an animal for God
So why then was the woman created?
Woman is specifically made so that man doesn’t have to be alone. The woman was made for man. Per Pauline doctrine, man is the glory of God, woman the Glory of man.
Now that the blueprint of creation is laid out, let’s see the implications.
Man may rule the world, but woman will always rule over the man. They are designed to have the wisdom and ability to bend the man to their will.
That’s why the bible is adamant that he who finds a good wife finds a good thing… because he has a good tenderer on his side.
Man pitted against a woman will always fall short. Men conquer the world, but are conquered by women.
Don’t underestimate the power of the woman over the man.
Even in today’s world, men make most of the money, but women make 80% of all consumer decisions.
Men conquer the world, women conquer the man.
Together they rule over everything.
Woman isn’t as equipped (from a creational standpoint) to conquer the world… so she conquers the man who conquers the world.
That’s why women go for the creme of society… they are looking to conquer the men who have conquered the world.
I don’t agree. If men are indeed created in God’s image then nothing can conquer them. Not even women.
I have studied men for a long time. A man can never do anything he does not want to do, unlike women who get convinced against their better judgment all the time out of fear or infatuation. Many things. That’s why churches are filled with women, cults are filled with with women, ponzi schemes, I mean if you are trying to take advantage of someone. Look for a woman. The most gullible creature God created. A woman is too weak minded to manipulate a man and even fellow women. If women have so much power how come most if not all cults are headed by men.
Let’s not romanticise the Bible by projecting our own imagination on the Bible bcz I see in this forum that people have created the Bible in their own image. Mara the devil was a homo sapien in form of a serpent,mara women conquer men but where is that in the Bible, what I know is that God cursed women to be ruled over by men.
I get tired of these arguments bcz they’re not supported by scripture rather it’s one’s subjective interpretation. Please bring scripture that supports your position. Also don’t quote things out of context. Give us the back story, if you are talking about Delilah give us her history, give us Samson history with women, like he had never been in with a Philistinian woman before. First of all the Bible is a book that is interconnected. Nothing stands alone, there’s prophecy, there’s symbolism like the snake in the desert is symbolic of the resurrection of Christ or the crucifixion and the tree of life for the healing of all nations. You need to look at it in context of the whole Bible not just one incident.
1)Where did Eve CONVINCE Adam to eat the forbidden fruit?
This are all the interpretations show me the word convince. All I see is Gave. And I see that Adam was there, through out, she did not go looking for him, the man was right there.
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Bible > Genesis > Chapter 3 > Verse 6
◄ Genesis 3:6 ►
New International Version
When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
New Living Translation
The woman was convinced. She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious, and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it, too.
English Standard Version
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.
Berean Study Bible
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.
King James Bible
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
New King James Version
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it waspleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.
New American Standard Bible
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took some of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.
NASB 1995
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
NASB 1977
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
Amplified Bible
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was delightful to look at, and a tree to be desired in order to make one wise and insightful, she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.
Christian Standard Bible
The woman saw that the tree was good for food and delightful to look at, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom. So she took some of its fruit and ate it; she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Then the woman saw that the tree was good for food and delightful to look at, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom. So she took some of its fruit and ate it; she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
American Standard Version
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat; and she gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the woman saw that it was a tree good to eat, and was desirable to the eyes, and a tree desirable to gaze at, and she took from its fruit and ate, and she gave also to her husband with her and he ate.
Brenton Septuagint Translation
And the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes to look upon and beautiful to contemplate, and having taken of its fruit she ate, and she gave to her husband also with her, and they ate.
Contemporary English Version
The woman stared at the fruit. It looked beautiful and tasty. She wanted the wisdom that it would give her, and she ate some of the fruit. Her husband was there with her, so she gave some to him, and he ate it too.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the woman saw that the tree was good to eat, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold: and she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave to her husband who did eat.
English Revised Version
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat; and she gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat.
Good News Translation
The woman saw how beautiful the tree was and how good its fruit would be to eat, and she thought how wonderful it would be to become wise. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband, and he also ate it.
GOD’S WORD® Translation
The woman saw that the tree had fruit that was good to eat, nice to look at, and desirable for making someone wise. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
International Standard Version
When the woman saw that the tree produced good food, was attractive in appearance, and was desirable for making one wise, she took some of its fruit and ate it. Then she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate some, too.
JPS Tanakh 1917
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat; and she gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat.
Literal Standard Version
And the woman sees that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she takes from its fruit and eats, and also gives [some] to her husband with her, and he eats;
NET Bible
When the woman saw that the tree produced fruit that was good for food, was attractive to the eye, and was desirable for making one wise, she took some of its fruit and ate it. She also gave some of it to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.
New Heart English Bible
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit, and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.
World English Bible
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit, and ate; and she gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.
Young’s Literal Translation
And the woman seeth that the tree is good for food, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make one wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;
Additional Translations …
Context
The Serpent’s Deception
…5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6When the woman saw thatthe tree was good for food andpleasing to the eyes, and that it wasdesirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it. 7And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; so they sewed together fig leaves and made coverings for themselves.…
Berean Study Bible · Download
Cross References
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.
Romans 5:17
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
1 Timothy 2:14
And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.
James 1:14
But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed.
James 1:15
Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world–the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life–is not from the Father but from the world.
Treasury of Scripture
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also to her husband with her; and he did eat.
saw.
Joshua 7:21
When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them; and, behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.
Judges 16:1,2
Then went Samson to Gaza, and saw there an harlot, and went in unto her…
pleasant.
Ezekiel 24:16,21,25
Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the desire of thine eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down…
to the eyes.
Genesis 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 39:7
And it came to pass after these things, that his master’s wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
Joshua 7:21
When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them; and, behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.
and did.
1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
and he did eat.
Genesis 3:12,17
And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat…
Hosea 6:7
But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.
Romans 5:12-19
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: …
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Ellicott’s Commentary for English Readers
(6) And when the woman saw . . . she took.–Heb., And the woman saw . . . and she took, &c. In this, the original form of the narrative, we see the progress of the temptation detailed in a far more lively manner than in our version. With awakened desire the woman gazes upon the tree. The fruit appears inviting to the eye, and possibly was really good for food. The whole aspect of the tree was beautiful; and, besides, there was the promise held out to her that it possessed the mysterious faculty of developing her intellectual powers. To this combined influence of her senses without and her ambition within she was unable to offer that resistance which would have been possible only by a living faith in the spoken word of God. She eats, therefore, and gives to her husband–so called here for the first time–and he eats with her. The demeanour of Adam throughout is extraordinary. It is the woman who is tempted–not as though Adam was not present, as Milton supposes, for she has not to seek him–but he shares with her at once the gathered fruit. Rather, she is pictured to us as more quick and observant, more open to impressions, more curious and full of longings than the man, whose passive behaviour is as striking as the woman’s eagerness and excitability.
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 6. - And (when) the woman saw. “An impure look, infected with the poison of concupiscence” (Calvin); cf. Joshua 7:21. That the tree was good for food. “The fruit of this tree may have been neither poisonous nor beautiful, or it may have been both; but sin has the strange power of investing the object of desire for the time being, whatever its true character, with a wonderful attraction” (Inglis). And that it (was) pleasant Literally, a desire (Psalm 10:17), a lust (Numbers 11:4). To the eyes. Ἀριστὸν τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς(LXX.); pulchrum oculis (Vulgate); lustye unto the eyes (Coverdale); i.e.stimulating desire through the eyes (cf. 1 John 2:16). And a tree to be desired to make (one) wise. לְהַשְׂכִּיל(from שָׂכַל -
(1) to look at, to behold; hence
(2) to be prudent, 1 Samuel 18:30.
Hiph.,
(1) to look at;
(2) to turn the mind to;
(3) to be or become understanding, Psalm 2:10)
being susceptible of two renderings, the clause has been taken to mean “atree desirable to look at” (Syriac, Onkelos, Vulgate, Gesenius, Kalisch, Wordsworth), or, more correctly, as it stands in the English Version, the external loveliness of the tree having been already stated in the preceding clause (LXX, Aben Ezra, Calvin, Hengstenberg, Macdonald). This is the third time the charms of the tree are discerned and expressed by the woman - a significant intimation of how far the Divine interdict had receded from her consciousness. She took of the fruit thereof, and did eat. Thus consummating the sin (James L 15). And gave also to her husband. Being desirous, doubtless, of
Hebrew
When the woman
הָֽאִשָּׁ֡ה (hā·’iš·šāh)
Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong’s 802: Woman, wife, female
saw
וַתֵּ֣רֶא (wat·tê·re)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person feminine singular
Strong’s 7200: To see
that
כִּ֣י (kî)
Conjunction
Strong’s 3588: A relative conjunction
the tree
הָעֵ֨ץ (hā·‘êṣ)
Article | Noun - masculine singular
Strong’s 6086: Tree, trees, wood
[was] good
טוֹב֩ (ṭō·wḇ)
Adjective - masculine singular
Strong’s 2896: Pleasant, agreeable, good
for food
לְמַאֲכָ֜ל (lə·ma·’ă·ḵāl)
Preposition-l | Noun - masculine singular
Strong’s 3978: An eatable
and
וְכִ֧י (wə·ḵî)
Conjunctive waw | Conjunction
Strong’s 3588: A relative conjunction
pleasing
תַֽאֲוָה־ (ṯa·’ă·wāh-)
Noun - feminine singular
Strong’s 8378: A longing, a delight
to the eyes,
לָעֵינַ֗יִם (lā·‘ê·na·yim)
Preposition-l, Article | Noun - cd
Strong’s 5869: An eye, a fountain
[and that it was]
הָעֵץ֙ (hā·‘êṣ)
Article | Noun - masculine singular
Strong’s 6086: Tree, trees, wood
desirable
וְנֶחְמָ֤ד (wə·neḥ·māḏ)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Nifal - Participle - masculine singular
Strong’s 2530: To desire, take pleasure in
for obtaining wisdom,
לְהַשְׂכִּ֔יל (lə·haś·kîl)
Preposition-l | Verb - Hifil - Infinitive construct
Strong’s 7919: To be, circumspect, intelligent
she took
וַתִּקַּ֥ח (wat·tiq·qaḥ)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person feminine singular
Strong’s 3947: To take
the fruit
מִפִּרְי֖וֹ (mip·pir·yōw)
Preposition-m | Noun - masculine singular construct | third person masculine singular
Strong’s 6529: Fruit
and ate it.
וַתֹּאכַ֑ל (wat·tō·ḵal)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person feminine singular
Strong’s 398: To eat
She also gave [some]
וַתִּתֵּ֧ן (wat·tit·tên)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person feminine singular
Strong’s 5414: To give, put, set
to her husband,
לְאִישָׁ֛הּ (lə·’î·šāh)
Preposition-l | Noun - masculine singular construct | third person feminine singular
Strong’s 582: Man, mankind
and he ate it.
וַיֹּאכַֽל׃ (way·yō·ḵal)
Conjunctive waw
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Let’s go to Samson pre Delilah
Judges 14
New International Reader’s Version
[SIZE=5]Samson Marries a Philistine Woman[/SIZE]
14 Samson went down to Timnah. There he saw a young Philistine woman. 2 When he returned, he spoke to his father and mother. He said, “I’ve seen a Philistine woman in Timnah. Get her for me. I want her to be my wife.”
3 His father and mother replied, “Can’t we find a wife for you among your relatives? Isn’t there one among any of our people? Do you have to go to the Philistines to get a wife? They aren’t God’s people. They haven’t even been circumcised.”
But Samson said to his father, “Get her for me. She’s the right one for me.” 4 Samson’s parents didn’t know that the Lord wanted things to happen this way. He was working out his plans against the Philistines. That’s because the Philistines were ruling over Israel at that time.
5 Samson went down to Timnah. His father and mother went with him. They approached the vineyards of Timnah. Suddenly a young lion came roaring toward Samson. 6 Then the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully on Samson. So he tore the lion apart with his bare hands. He did it as easily as he might have torn a young goat apart. But he didn’t tell his father or mother what he had done. 7 Then he went down and talked with the woman. He liked her.
8 Some time later, he was going back to marry her. But he turned off the road to look at the lion’s dead body. He saw large numbers of bees and some honey in it. 9 He dug out the honey with his hands. He ate it as he walked along. Then he joined his parents again. He gave them some honey. They ate it too. But he didn’t tell them he had taken it from the lion’s dead body.
10 Samson’s father went down to see the woman. Samson had a feast prepared there. He was following the practice of young men when they married their wives. 11 When the people saw Samson, they gave him 30 men to be his companions.
12 “Let me tell you a riddle,” Samson said to the companions. “The feast will last for seven days. Give me the answer to the riddle before the feast ends. If you do, I’ll give you 30 linen shirts. I’ll also give you 30 sets of clothes. 13 But suppose you can’t give me the answer. Then you must give me 30 linen shirts. You must also give me 30 sets of clothes.”
“Tell us your riddle,” they said. “Let’s hear it.”
14 Samson replied,
“Out of the eater came something to eat.
Out of the strong came something sweet.”
For three days they couldn’t give him the answer.
15 On the fourth day they spoke to Samson’s wife. “Get your husband to explain the riddle for us,” they said. “If you don’t, we’ll burn you to death. We’ll burn up everyone in your family. Did you invite us here to steal our property?”
16 Then Samson’s wife threw herself on him. She sobbed, “You hate me! You don’t really love me. You have given my people a riddle. But you haven’t told me the answer.”
“I haven’t even explained it to my father or mother,” he replied. “So why should I explain it to you?” 17 She cried during the whole seven days the feast was going on. So on the seventh day he finally told her the answer to the riddle. That’s because she kept on asking him to tell her. Then she explained the riddle to her people.
18 Before sunset on the seventh day of the feast the men of the town spoke to Samson. They said,
“What is sweeter than honey?
What is stronger than a lion?”
Samson said to them,
“You have plowed with my young cow.
If you hadn’t, you wouldn’t have known the answer to my riddle.”
19 Then the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully on Samson. He went down to Ashkelon. He struck down 30 of their men. He took everything they had with them. And he gave their clothes to those who had explained the riddle. Samson was very angry as he returned to his father’s home. 20 Samson’s wife was given to someone else. She was given to a companion of Samson. The companion had helped him at the feast.
Do you disagree than man was made in the image of God?
[SIZE=6]1 Cor 11:7-9[/SIZE]
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and [SIZE=6][COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]glory[/SIZE] of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
So the woman was created for the man… to meet the man’s needs. Man was not created for the woman, he was for the glory of God.
It’s not proper that a man should be alone, and that gives the woman power. Men will always deeply need to be with a ‘suitable help’.
The idea that it is the curse is what made the man the head of the woman isn’t accurate.
The ‘Rule’ over you is the corruption we see today. The man’s use of his God-given abilities as a tool to dominate the woman. Initially, it was a tool to ‘unite’ with the woman to create the 'union’ the oneness…
That doesn’t mean that the man wasn’t head over the woman before the curse… NOOO!
God is a God of hierarchies.
Woman, at the very first instance of creation was made for man…
Think of it in terms of the God head, which the bible has used to illustrate this relationship.
God is the head of Christ, Christ the head of the Church, Man the head of the Woman
Hierarchies are Godly and not the product of a curse.
From the onset, woman is made under the man’s authority…
Authority here is the authority likened to Christ and the Church.
The man wasn’t supposed to rule the woman like he does the animals, not. They were supposed to rule together, but in that leadership the man was always the head… Evidence is the fact that Woman is made for man, like everything is made for Christ.
You said it well, we read the bible comprehensively.
How do you read 1 Cor 11 on the headship of the man from creation (note it traces man’s authority to creation and design, not the fall)
Adam was not deceived by the serpent, Eve was deceived.
Eve ate the fruit out of the deception, Adam ate because of Eve.
Look at how the story plays out when God visits.
Man, why did you eat…
The woman gave me.
God accepts that premise and asks the woman:
Why did you do this:
Woman says, The Serpent deceived me.
Now, let’s listen to God’s verdict.
In Gen 3:17, when God is cursing the land because of the man, God himself testifies that man ate because of the suggestion of the woman.
17 To Adam he said, “Because you [SIZE=4][COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]hearkened[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]to the voice of your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.
You see?
Even Paul is adamant that man was not deceived of the devil.
That’s why the devil picked the woman to deceive, even though they were together. The serpent was the most cunning of all creatures.
It was cunningness that made him pick the woman.
Notice how the serpent doesn’t even engage the man after the woman eats of the tree.
It’s a strategy the devil has used multiple times.
My friend being created in the image of God means nothing if you don’t SUBMIT to the authority of God. If you look at most men after the fall there is nothing in the image of God left of them. Nothing. Satan was nearer to God than any man, look at what he became after he stopped submitting to God.
And btw women were also created in God’s image. Again I am warning you against quoting scripture verses OUT OF CONTEXT. To further your subjective viewpoints and agendas. I am going to go back and forth with you when you are hell bent on corrupting the Bible to push lies based on your personal agenda and corrupted thought patterns.
Genesis 1:27, : “So God created [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]them; male and female he created them.”
Let me reiterate this to you, Eve did not convince Adam of anything. If I give you food to eat which you are allergic to, you taking up my offer, doesn’t imply that I convinced you. Yes you accepted my offer but you didn’t put up any resistance. Man was not deceived like Eve. Man like Satan willingly and knowingly rebelled against God. Period.
Women rebel from being deceived by Satan or by men but men like Satan rebel bcz it is what they want to do. That is why men are closer to Satan than to God. They are not deceived. They want to rebel against God. Women are just scapegoats.
The glory of God does not dwell in sinful man/woman . So you are not glory of God unless you are in dwelt by the Holy Spirit. It’s not automatic. If indeed God segregated which gender is His glory, we will not be having women with healing ministries like Catherine Kulman and many other women. Evangelists like Wairimu Nelson.
So if you want to feel superior to women fine but kindly do not bring the Bible verses quoted out of context to support your personal biases.
And answer the issue of Delilah and her not being the first woman to make Samson divulge his secrets.
Finish that verse, Genesis 1:27… and named them Adam
You see, woman was in man… she was removed from man, not from the dirt.
Under the new covenant, we are all adopted as sons, so no woman no greek etc. I am under a very anointed woman of God
Don’t make this an argument of gender, we are discussing scripture.
It’s because of the design of creation that even in the NT, the man remains the head of the woman
The argument here is your assertion that woman is only under the man because of the curse (which you support by reading a single text independent of all other scripture)
How do you understand the ARGUMENT in 1cor 11 that makes it plain that man is an authority over the woman by virtue of creation, not curse
Woman was created for man, but man wasn’t created for woman.
Man is the glory of God, woman the glory of man.
That is literary verbatim text of scripture.
And emotion and personal attack is not validly place in a theological discussion. A discussion on scripture is a learning experience, approached with humility.
And TBH, I only engage in theological discussion that is truly scriptural… meaning void of personal attacks because that makes it no different from a political discussion
If we can’t come to such an agreement, then I’ll humbly concede and retract from the discussion
Then we can meet in a political debate and go bananas:)
So if man was already head of the woman why did God curse the woman to be under the man?
QUOTE the verse where God names them Adam and include the version of the Bible you are using bcz it’s not in my Bibles, KJV, NIV, NLT, GOOD NEWS AND ESV translations.
I don’t know how you are sitting under a woman of God with the kind of a chauvinistic mind set you have.
My understanding of the hierarchy of man and wife is that they are like the trinity, equal and one but Christ being equal to the Father did not consider Himself equal to the Father rather He submitted unto death. Symbolically this is my understanding but its not every husband, it is a husband submitted completely to Christ.
You have been ignoring the debate about Delilah after I showed you that in fact Samson had the habit of going to women from the enemy and pagan Phillistines who worshipped Dagon and to whose hand God had given the Israelites for disobeying Him I believe it was for 40 years, the Phillistines knew his weakness from his first wife. He was in love with Delilah and he knew very well that his women would divulge what he told to the Phillistines from past experience and the problem wasn’t Delilah even if it was any other woman from the enemies camp they would have forced her to do the same. Remember that after Samson avenged his first wife being given to another man, the Phillistines burnt her and her father to death. As I’ve implied time and time again men seem to have the nature of Lucifer where power given by God goes to their heads. Women are just victims and scapegoats. Samson thought that even if they cut his hair the Spirit of God which was his real source of strength wouldn’t leave him and that was his real reason for telling Delilah, he thought he was too powerful to ever lose his strength even if he married pagans and slept with prostitutes against the laws of God.
What I don’t like is the fixation men have with making women the universal scapegoat. Men do what they want to do bcz they want to do it not bcz they are deceived by women. Adam ate the apple with out Eve uttering one word, she gave him the apple and though unlike her he wasn’t deceived by the devil’s arguments about the fruit, he wanted to eat it bcz his ego told him that he was too powerful for anything to happen to him for disobedience to God. It was his ego and pride of him not wanting his wife to see him submit to God by rejecting the forbidden fruit.
Same to Samson, Ahab, David, Solomon and Herod who had John the Baptist beheaded. It was ego at play but women end up being blamed. If indeed men are so vulnerable to women why don’t they follow their wives and mothers to church where women are the majority? They only follow them to sin.
Its unfortunate to raise girls or daughters with the mindset you have bcz the world as it deteriorates has turned men into marauding beasts and if a woman is blindly submissive Satan will destroy her through men.
Judges 16
19 After putting him to sleep on her lap, she called for someone to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him.[c]And his strength left him.(AA)
20 Then she called, “Samson, the Philistines are upon you!”(AB)
He awoke from his sleep and thought, “I’ll go out as before and shake myself free.” But he did not know that the Lord had left him.
Why didnt the devil use a woman to make Cain kill his brother Abel? Man ate the fruit bcz his ego wanted him to show Eve that he was above the laws of God. Simple. I have asked you to show me where in the original passage it says Eve spoke or convinced Adam against his better judgment to eat the fruit. She merely offered him the fruit, the way you offer what you are eating to your friend, there was no compulsion or debate or nagging. Nada. She just offered the fruit him period.
Satan understands the nature of man bcz man is more alike with Lucifer than woman. David saw Bathsheba wanted to sleep with her in spite of knowing she was someone’s wife. Next thing she got pg and he tried to pass off the pregnancy as Uriahs when that did not work he killed Uriah. Yet you hear men blame Bathsheba all the poor woman did was to take a bath.
According to your reading of 1 Cor 11…
Is man an authority over the woman by virtue of a curse or creation?
Read the arguments therein… Woman is the glory of man. It may not sit well with modern-minded people, but scripture is holy, true, and above reproach
Adam was always an authority over Eve because Eve was made for him. He did not rule over her, though. Like I told you earlier, to understand Godly hierarchy, look at the Godhead. The Father is equal to the Son and Spirit in essence but superior in position. Do you see the kind of authority Christ seeks to establish via His disciples…
“The leaders of the Gentiles lord their authority over them, but it shall not be so with you.”
You see, authority is separate from lording (the rule over you of Genesis)
Adam was an authority over Evem because EVE WAS MADE FOR HIM.
[SIZE=5][COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. [/SIZE]
Man is head of the woman, like CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH
Genesis 5 verse 2
Read the footnote on the verse where it says he named them mankind.
Genesis 3 verse 17
… this is God speaking BTW
17 And unto Adam he said, Because[SIZE=6] thou hast hearkened unto the [COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]voice of thy wife[/SIZE], and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Where do you get that it is submission only to the husband totally submitted to Christ?
Per this deduction, the women who don’t divorce their unbelieving husbands per 1 Corinthians 7 should not submit to them?
Commandments are commands, not opinions, not suggestions.
The man is obligated to love the wife, out of the commandment
The woman to submit, out of the commandment
Read Ephesians 5
We do what we do out of reverence to Christ.
It’s not optional!!!
Matter of fact Paul asks women to submit to their husbands as they do to Christ in everything
That’s the verbatim text of scripture. You cannot add to it! Scripture is either holy true and infallible or old-fashioned and unbinding. It cannot be both. If you hold it true, you change your worldview to match scripture, you never alter or misinterpret it to suit your worldview
And it’s the simpler of the requirements. Husbands are required to love their husbands as Christ loves the church. Again, not a suggestion, and independent of whether you deem her worthy of the love or not. It’s a commandment, therefore not optional
So who is the head of say a single woman who has no dad? This headship things go with relationships its not automatic at all. God is not the glory of a man who has no relationship with him. A single woman is not the glory of any man except maybe her dad if he’s present in her life.
I didn’t think this to be of as grave theological consequence as the others.
I concede on this matter just so we move the discussion along.
We will just get into semantics and opinions that can’t be supported by verbatim text of scripture. For the rest, there is verbatim text so we can know for sure and certain what the position of God is