Okay
Malema was not touching productive land. If you have 10,000 acres and only using 5,000, hiyo imebaki ndio inashughulikiwa na serikali.
Actually we do have them, in Laikipia, they farm wheat large scale. Then you have the British companies in Kericho and Limuru farming tea and then you have Indians in Naivasha and Nyandarua farming flowers.
There’s a governor somewhere, I think Nandi who announced that he wouldn’t be renewing the tea multinationals land leases. Sijui kuliendaje.
This is some really scary shit right here. When I think about Black South Africans, I think of v angry folk. When I think about white South Africans, I think of racist folk. This is a recipe for disaster. So many Whites left the country and moved to the UK and Canada. What happened to that land?many lives will be lost.
I know one day Kenyans will wake up and nyakua the grabbed land from the Kenyattas etc so I will be watching this matter v closely.
I doubt we would starve to death if they decided to leave the lands to us Kenyans like they would have us believe.
Rice farms are in the hands of Kenyans, maize farms are in the hands of Kenyans, potato farms are in the hands of Kenyans
Impossible, small scale farmers watapanda, mahindi, maharagwe, viazi kwa shamba moja and cut on things like fertilizer hence exhaust the soil. Then pia throw mechanisation out
Guys will have a farm to work on and the security of land ownership, but production cannot be the same
But we have our pride! That is the most important thing.
Guys, only land that is not being used is being expropriated.
Kama food insecurity is just a figment of my imagination
This thread is enough confirmation that an average African is an incorrigible idiot. Respect for property rights and by extension the rule of law is the first sign of a country on the path of development. We never seem to learn. Zimbabwe was here before.
Are you also aware that between 1800’s to early 1900’s was when the British empire was at its peak?
Yaani wakati walifanya the most atrocities and did the most grabbing was when they had the most power, so your logic fails there. No property rights respected there.
Alafu, when they took land from your grandparents, who was the ‘incorrigible idiot’ in that situation?
For the sake of discussion, I don’t think there was a form of land ownership during pre colonial times, at least not personal ownership - I think the white man introduced the concept of a land title.
That said, the issue of land is a tricky one, how far back should we go, when for example the agikuyu came to their present day lands, they might have displaced some people, should those people claim a right to the land.
For me land belongs to those who can defend it, if you you are not able whoever displaces you claims the same, in the past it was mostly through violence, nowadays its through ‘kelele’ legal means and the court systems.
Bro, that there is part of the problem. Saying that the only wat that you can own land is through a title issued by the invader. Look up the deals the Maasai signed with the British to understand what far reaching consequences this has.
Furthermore, not addressing colonialism and displacement of people as an issue is simply postponing the problem. It will always come back, the same way land issues are haunting the Kenyattas. Sweeping past misdeeds under the rug only works if you have completely subjugated or killed off the former occupiers. The families Kenyans and SAfricans that were displced aren’t dead.
As a side note, Kikuyus were rarely a warring tribe, choosing mostly to negotiate and trade. Much of present day Kiambu was actually bought from Dorobos when they settled down.
That’s my point, if for example the agikuyu supposedly bought land from the dorobo (who happen to be doing quite badly now) why would one dismiss the white man buying the same from say the maasai.
But what I am trying to put forward is that, with land there is no going back, otherwise you create a bigger mess, because at the time ownership was changing hands, that was what was agreeable back then, if you try to apply todays logic or system backwards you quickly get into problems.
If say the native americans start looking at land ownership, or even the dorobo - if they were to agitate for past injustices to be looked into to what would happen if they were given back their lands, si watu wa kiambu wata complain.
once this is done be sure SA inajoin league ya shithole countries kama CAR.the jungus wont take it lying down they will fight back and not through arms but sanctions and economic sabotage just like in zimbabwe and as the saying goes the bigger it is the harder it will fall.
That’s thepoint I’m trying to put across . Either kill off whoever you stole the land from (a la the Native Americans you’ve mentioned)or deal with it as a future problem( like what’s gping on in SA).
It’s only in Africa where we are expected to take these land issues lying down. This shit doesn’t happen in Europe unaambiwa ‘boss that was kitambo, tugange yajayo’.
Also, the post genocide land sharing in Rwanda is proof that redistribution can work.
Land is always an interesting discussion, especially if you add the historical perspective of the same - I mean look at the native americans, they are still around some in reserves upto this day, look at the aboriginals in austraria, and even in europe the romans displaced people and took over their lands.
The displaced people in all the above cases are still around, but if you start giving them back what they claim to be their land you will get into problems, because back when that land changed ownership, the rules were different. What you might consider unfair today might have been viewed differently back then, and still if today we were to determine the dorobo land was taken unjustifiably by the agikuyu, how do we go about giving them back their land.
The Zimbabwe experiment failed mainly due to corruption and lack of agricultural skills by the recipients. Otherwise, expropriation corrects previous injustices though in some cases it can be really brutal like what happened in China under Chairman Mao.
Si you live in SA, do you really think the blacks can replicate what the whites have done? I saw a documentary where the guy who was given a farm wasn’t able to manage till the jungu decided to form a partnership with him.