Remember M7 was not the only group vying for power. Even within gava there were coups and counter coups.
Just look at UGs long period of peace and sustained economic growth that have made it a regional power.
He will leave at some point. But let him not be removed simply because he has been there for 35yrs only to be replaced by a populist.
For example, I wouldnt have minded if Kibaki ruled for even 40yrs. Infact, I would have preferred it
Oh yes. Another popular African delusion- the benevolent dictator.
In that case add Moi as a benevolent dictator. He was always benevolent to those that supported him fully.
I guess also the “Brutal” Nyerere should be mentioned in the same breath as Idi Amin Dada…
If you think the idea of benevolent dictator is a delusion, then you are the deluded one
Brutality isn’t limited to mass murder FYI.
Nyerere forced millions of people off their farms and out of their livelihoods to go take part in his idiotic economic experiment that ended up in poverty levels that left them actually poorer than they were before colonialism.
The legacy of autocratic rule in Tanzania - from Nyerere to life under Magufuli
At least he had the conscience to leave before totally ruining the nation and the humility to admit his mistakes.
More to the point, it’s silly to state Museveni is better than Moi when both are essentially one and the same thing- incompetent despots.
1 Kenya shillng == 33.68 Uganda shillings
UGX has really appreciated. It used to be zirty eight to the KSH.
Will Uganda remain stable after the exit of m7, Kenya cannot afford chaos and confusion on its western border like it is on the eastern border
Nyerere did what he thought would help the people. Things like collectivisation were standard practice in communist leaning states. And when things failed, he rightly stepped aside. You cant compare this with Idi Amin who did not follow a higher minded ideal like Nyerere. Amins main aim was to stay in power and his actions of mass murder, torture, rape, cannibalism etc were geared towards this end.
Secondly, you cant call Nyereres economic policies idiotic just like you cant say communism was idiotic. In hindsight we know that these policies dont work but that doesnt mean the idea was idiotic.
M7 has his country growing steadily from the time he came to power to date. Ugandas GDP 1986 was circa USD 3 billion. Todays its about USD 35 billion… thats about 12 times growth. Moi almost ruined the economy. If this is silly to you, so be it
M7 hatatolewa, he will live to suffer consequences and later die like a dog. There lived worse people like him and now they are dead.
They were colossal FAILURES!
From Stalin’s horrific Holomodor to Mao’s great leap forward, not a single one succeeded yet Nyerere arrogantly thought he was better equipped than the rest.
Did Amin not redistribute private businesses to public hands?
Wasnt Tanzania a one party dictatorship? Didn’t TANU/CCM detain political opponents without trials? Didn’t Nyerere sit aside as his VP in Zanzibar commit human rights violations?
Only difference between Amin and Nyerere is that one was less of a hypocrite and less educated. And it isn’t Nyerere.
I can absolutely call them idiotic because anyone with the slightest bit of commonsense can see how stupid, arrogant and destructive they were.
For a person with the credentials of an academic, the man Nyerere was stupid in economic matters. The pinnacle of his failure says it all when he went to a capitalist country to seek treatment for leukaemia and died there.
You either misunderstand benovelence or you choose to bury your head in the sand. There was a genocide, yes, a genocide in northern Uganda. There are so many people jailed without trial. The reason you don’t know this? The British and Americans have chosen to look the other way because he is their errand boy in the region. And he has also muzzled the press and done a better job spinning information.
When a leader stays long in power, his relatives friends and cronies become a law unto themselves. That is where Uganda is…
Jomo and Moi’s regimes are not that far in the past that you’ve forgotten the effect of long rule. Not for Africans it has never been a good thing.
Bro, Northern Uganda was in the midst of civil war. M7 didnt cause genocide there but the general fighting led to thousands of deaths and displacement of people. Contrast that with Idi Amin who targetted people simply because of their tribe or with the Tutsis in 94 Rwanda who targetted Hutus for slaughter.
I dont believe the Americans are very adept that they will hide M7’s genocide from the whole internet. There is stuff there that leaks even about the west that they themselves dont like. If the Americans were so adept at this, then even stuff like how they killed Lumumba or the British gulags in Kenya in the 50s should remain hidden basi.
In dictatorships whether benevolent or not, political opponents are jailed. Thats a fact and am not saying M7 does not do it. But the fact is since he came to power, their economy has grown almost 12-fold.
There definitely will be some members of his family who are powerful. But no system is perfect. Even in Trump’s short sting. Jared Kushner and Ivanka were powerful.
But considering what came before M7 in Uganda, they would rather have him than any of the past 8 or so presidents
Go look for a documentary on YouTube entitled A Brilliant Genocide.
Which region? Uganda is one of the poorest countries in the world and it is nowhere near Kenya and Tanzania yet it has a large population
Thanks chap for the thread summary
Bro, a regional power is a power that has the capacity to interfere in the affairs of its neighboring states without them having the power to interfere much in your own affairs.
Lets look at Uganda under M7
M7 allowed Kagame to use Uganda as a launching pad for the invasion of Rwanda thereby influencing who would be the next president of Rwanda. He has also always offered support to the South Sudanese before they got their independence to such an extent that it irked the govt in Khartoum and they in turn offered Kony assistance. Today South Sudan is independent
M7, together with Kagame (whom he had assisted to come to power), invaded Zaire (or DRC today) and ousted Kuku Zabanga wa Ngbendu (Mobutu) and placed Kabila in Power. When they fell out with him, they again invaded DRC. Uganda still has influence today in Eastern DRC.
They have also participated in the fighting in Somalia.
M7 is also viewed as an elder statesman in the region
They may be poor yes, but as I have mentioned here, M7 has increased Ugandas GDP imensely. And going by Ugandas actions since M7 came to power, she is definitely a regional power. A power that before him was fighting alot within its borders but can now project its power on its neighbours.
In other words a militaristic dictatorship that frequently and illegally interferes in the affairs of other sovereign nations while repressing its citizens?
I was pointing out how UG can be considered a regional power. That was the point of the post.
Whether you want to consider it a militaistic dictatorship is another point altogether and is arguable.
The US for example isnt a military dictatorship but routinely sends its army to secure her interets around the globe. Kenya and Ethiopia have done the same thing in Somalia but I wouldnt consider them as such