What Shapes People? Nature or Nurture

[MegaKing]

@girlciki93

The tropics are the hardest place to live. There is no disease like here and pests that make it difficult to keep livestock and then the land does not support large scale grain cultivation before mechanization came up then there is the Sahara desert that effectively locks you away from the rest of the World.

Hardship doesn’t bring innovation, it brings a survivalist mentality like the San people and their hunts in the Kalahari regions. Or any poor person today.

You are contradicting yourself.
the tropics are easiest place on earth, that why Africans didn’t bother keep their technology gains, you have access to food and favorable climate

[gashwin]

@MegaKing

You are contradicting yourself.
the tropics are easiest place on earth, that why Africans didn’t bother keep their technology gains, you have access to food and favorable climate

she has the picture of the dark continent firmly imprinted in her brain…she doesn’t seem to know africans had their technologies to meet their needs - they controlled malaria with the bark of the cinchona tree from which mzungu later refined quinine, they worked iron ore with charcoal to make steel for their arrow and spear heads, potters and so on…

[system]

@hcaikp

the enviroment plays a big role to nature people, i.e in africa its warmer with nice tropical weather hence lazier pple since time immemorial, and the more northerly on earths latitude you go its more temperate and colder hence the human adapts and starts using the brain to survive hence evolution of technology. Thats my take @girlciki93 .

In Carlifornia it’s always warmer and it never snows yet silicon Valley plus Hollywood exists there. They are way richer than the cold states.

[system]

@gashwin

i just watched a docu about the polar bear on NATGEOwild and one of the things i’ve noted is how hard it has to work to ensure it survives the long harsh winter. it has to eat enough to build (store) body fat to 'eat" during winter. it has also developed certain characteristics that help with survival such as lowering metabolism and not passing waste during the winter.
in the same environment, the russian in siberia has to find enough fuel to warm his home and food to keep him going when the earth is not productive during winter ; something his counterpart in the tropics doesn’t have to do. how hard one works therefore is a matter borne of environmental necessity.
this may explain why southern europeans had time for adventure; though again the Norse tribes such as the Vikings were earlier seafarers than the south europeans. pre-industrial revolution adventurism was more like a quest for survival rather than prosperity resourves…
the environment shapes the man.

Do you watch David Attenborough? he is the ultimate! Kids and I are gripped all the time. We switch off the lights and hung out. Priceless.

[girlciki93]

@gashwin

you are measuring their needs by alien (western) standards. if they were in such acute need how have they survived to date?

they are comfortable. they are a rudimentary society without needs beyond nurturing their young to carry their genes to the next generation. they have adapted to their environment. They will need to buy guns when they can no longer kill their food game (need) or if lions develop a taste for their flesh (threat)…

To quote Lloyd Thomas in Money, Banking and Finance…" Such an extremely rudimentary society can get by nicely without the use of money, so money did not exist in the early centuries of Aboriginal Australia [which was more or less like the San Kalahari]"

Africa life was disrupted by the needs/greed of others.

I don’t think material comfort is a Western standard. The reason humans practiced agriculture is so they could have a surplus. Is that Western? The San do not have this luxury, as hunters typically have to hunt over and over for less and less food.

But Africa had trade way before Europeans came & the concept of Africa itself is a European creation. If you go to precolonial Africa you won’t find the idea of “Africa.” ati we are one people or something.
They are definitely not comfortable. Why? They need to hunt everyday. Less Chance of success than a farmer who tills everyday

[girlciki93]

@MegaKing

You are contradicting yourself.
the tropics are easiest place on earth, that why Africans didn’t bother keep their technology gains, you have access to food and favorable climate

lol no, the tropics are the hardest. Most diseases of livestock and humans are in the tropics. You are deluded to call it easy. Nobody was practicing large scale grain agriculture before Europeans came because it was impossible without mechanization. The land did not support it.

And did you read GHC or something? Africans ate the Hardy crops like Cassava hizi zingine like Maize were introduced by Europeans. Do you even history?

[girlciki93]

@gashwin

she has the picture of the dark continent firmly imprinted in her brain…she doesn’t seem to know africans had their technologies to meet their needs - they controlled malaria with the bark of the cinchona tree from which mzungu later refined quinine, they worked iron ore with charcoal to make steel for their arrow and spear heads, potters and so on…

Africans did not control malaria. Lol stop lying. Why do you think the population of Africa was so low for a long time compared to the other regions of the world? High infant mortality, high maternal deaths, low life expectancy. Who do you think caused all these deaths if not diseases?
As for metallurgy, most of it came by way of trade/info exchange from outsiders. Very few Africans are credited with internal metal work without external help. E.g the Nok people of Nigeria.

[system]

@girlciki93

I don’t think material comfort is a Western standard. The reason humans practiced agriculture is so they could have a surplus. Is that Western? The San do not have this luxury, as hunters typically have to hunt over and over for less and less food.

But Africa had trade way before Europeans came & the concept of Africa itself is a European creation. If you go to precolonial Africa you won’t find the idea of “Africa.” ati we are one people or something.
They are definitely not comfortable. Why? They need to hunt everyday. Less Chance of success than a farmer who tills everyday

even the Khoi khoi’s and the san hunters preserved meat through salting and drying

[girlciki93]

@Deorro

In Carlifornia it’s always warmer and it never snows yet silicon Valley plus Hollywood exists there. They are way richer than the cold states.

lol exactly, this formula that they want to suggest doesn’t work

[MegaKing]

@girlciki93

are in the tropics. You are deluded to call it easy. Nobody was practicing large scale grain agriculture before Europeans came because it was impossible without mechanization. The land did not support it.

Did you know that European got the idea of large scale farming from Aztec people. Maize didn’t exist in Africa nor in Europe.

[girlciki93]

@Deorro

even the Khoi khoi’s and the san hunters preserved meat through salting and drying

those are pretty simple esp. drying. now we use canned food

[girlciki93]

@MegaKing

Did you know that European got the idea of large scale farming from Aztec people. Maize didn’t exist in Africa nor in Europe.

Maize didn’t exist in Europe but it is they who took it to the world not the Aztecs & no, by the time Europeans were in colonization mode they had agrarian revolution online as well. So they didn’t get idea of large scale farming from Mexico.
I don’t know what point you are putting across. Mine was that the tropics is the hardest place to live since you contend with diseases (for you and your animals) and pests (for crops). and sometimes wildlife plus other geographical impediments to develop

[MegaKing]

@girlciki93

As for metallurgy, most of it came by way of trade/info exchange from outsiders. Very few Africans are credited with internal metal work without external help

Most of your arguments show your little knowledge about African culture and technology.
Many communities had metallurgy, when European came African blacksmith could not compete with cheap and easy produce metal.
Still European banned many African small scale industries.
Do proper research before posting your comments.

[gashwin]

@girlciki93

I don’t think material comfort is a Western standard. The reason humans practiced agriculture is so they could have a surplus. Is that Western?

i did not say that material comfort is a western standard. your definition of poverty (and what constitutes a poor quality of life) is what seemed to be based on western concepts. of course some africans practiced agriculture. the reason was, well, coz they couldn’t hunt their carbs:D, and because some communities multiplied to a point where they couldn’t get enough from foraging in their environment and it was more efficient to grow their food.

[system]

@girlciki93

Africans did not control malaria. Lol stop lying. Why do you think the population of Africa was so low for a long time compared to the other regions of the world? High infant mortality, high maternal deaths, low life expectancy. Who do you think caused all these deaths if not diseases?
As for metallurgy, most of it came by way of trade/info exchange from outsiders. Very few Africans are credited with internal metal work without external help. E.g the Nok people of Nigeria.

According to Wikipedia

The cinchona tree’s medicinal use in the treatment of fevers was first discovered by the Quechua people of Peru and Bolivia. According to legend, the first European ever to be cured from malaria fever was Ana de Osorio, 4th countess of Chinchón, the wife of the Spanish Luis Jerónimo de Cabrera who served as viceroy of Peru. The namesake Chinchón is a small town in central Spain. In the Viceroyalty of Peru, the court physician was summoned and urged to save the countess from the waves of fever and chill threatening her life, but every effort failed to relieve her. At last, the physician administered some medicine he had obtained from the local Indians, who had been using it for similar syndromes. The countess survived the malarial attack and reportedly brought the cinchona bark back with her when she returned to Europe in the 1640s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinchona

trying to read about the Cinchona plant and nowhere is it mentioned that it grew natively in Africa

[girlciki93]

@gashwin

i did not say that material comfort is a western standard. your definition of poverty (and what constitutes a poor quality of life) is what seemed to be based on western concepts. of course some africans practiced agriculture. the reason was, well, coz they couldn’t hunt their carbs:D, and because some communities multiplied to a point where they couldn’t get enough from foraging in their environment and it was more efficient to grow their food.

People stopped hunting because farming and livestock keeping is superior, nothing to do with carbs tbh. Put seeds in soil and after some months you get more seeds - all you have to do is to protect the land.
And I don’t know what Western concept I threw. I said they live on the margin & that’s true. They are more likely to die of hunger that a farmer, for example.

[girlciki93]

@Deorro

According to Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinchona

trying to read about the Cinchona plant and nowhere is it mentioned that it grew natively in Africa

lol, got em haha

[gashwin]

@girlciki93

Africans did not control malaria. Lol stop lying.

when david livingstone was making his journey into the hinterland most of his caravan was devastated by “marsh fever” (malaria). it was not until they discovered that africans used cinchona (i will try to get a reference). some areas such as the cold highlands of present day kenya had little malaria.

[gashwin]

@girlciki93

People stopped hunting because farming and livestock keeping is superior, nothing to do with carbs tbh. Put seeds in soil and after some months you get more seeds - all you have to do is to protect the land.
And I don’t know what Western concept I threw. I said they live on the margin & that’s true. They are more likely to die of hunger that a farmer, for example.

then why haven’t the hunter gatherer tribes of SW africa picked up agriculture?

[gashwin]

@girlciki93

lol, got em haha

[SIZE=6]Cinchona[/SIZE]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other uses, see Cinchona (disambiguation).
Cinchona
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Cinchona.pubescens01.jpg/220px-Cinchona.pubescens01.jpg
Cinchona pubescens - flowers
Scientific classificationhttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Red_Pencil_Icon.png
Kingdom: Plantae
Clade: Angiosperms
Clade: Eudicots
Clade: Asterids
Order: Gentianales
Family: Rubiaceae
Subfamily: Cinchonoideae
Tribe: Cinchoneae
Genus: Cinchona
L.
Type species
Cinchona officinalis
L.
Species
about 38 species; see text

Cinchona (/sɪŋˈkoʊnə/ or /-koʊnə/)[1] is a genus of flowering plants in the family Rubiaceae containing at least 23 species of trees and shrubs.[2] They are native to the tropical Andean forests of western South America.[3] A few species are reportedly naturalized in Central America, Jamaica, French Polynesia, Sulawesi, Saint Helena in the South Atlantic, and São Tomé and Príncipe off the coast of tropical Africa. A few species are used as medicinal plants, known as sources for quinine and other compounds.

Carl Linnaeus named the genus in 1742 after Ana de Osorio, the 4th Countess of Chinchón (pronounced /tʃinˈtʃon/ leading to some using the pronunciation /tʃinˈtʃonə/ for the common name of the plant) and wife of a viceroy of Peru. According to some accounts, she suffered from malaria and was cured by a botanical remedy made of the powdered bark of a native tree. The veracity of the story is uncertain, but the tree still carries her name.[3][4]

The national tree of Peru is in the genus Cinchona.[5]